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|
Attributes | |
ACN | 264492 |
Time | |
Date | 199402 |
Day | Thu |
Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : ord |
State Reference | IL |
Altitude | agl bound lower : 0 agl bound upper : 0 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tower : sdf |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Commercial Fixed Wing |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Flight Phase | climbout : takeoff |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | other other : other pilot : flight engineer pilot : atp pilot : cfi |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 220 flight time total : 12000 flight time type : 1800 |
ASRS Report | 264492 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Events | |
Anomaly | non adherence : published procedure non adherence : far other anomaly other |
Independent Detector | other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | none taken : detected after the fact |
Consequence | faa : investigated |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | Airport |
Air Traffic Incident | other |
Situations | |
Airport | procedure or policy : unspecified |
Publication | Unspecified |
Narrative:
At ord on feb/thu/94 we taxied out to runway 32L at taxiway T10. The txwys were hard packed snow and ice. Runway 32L was clear as far as we could see as we taxied onto the runway. As we approached V1, we saw that, from just beyond the point of rotation, the runway was covered with hard packed snow. I do not think that the airplane could have been stopped on the runway if an abort had been initiated a few seconds before V1. Going off the end of runway 32L may not be too serious due to a clrway. I am deeply troubled about jetliner airports that have obstructions at the ends of the runways (no clrways). This makes no allowance for error in a high speed abort when operating at or near runway limit weight on a dry runway. There is no certification requirement for a wet runway in accelerate-stop distance. This means to me that a jetliner operating at runway limit weight, where field length is limiting, will not stop on a wet runway during an aborted takeoff at V1. Far 25.109 does not include wet runways. Far 139.309 and 77.25 should never be 'grandfathered!' callback conversation with reporter revealed the following information: the reporter states that he has written the air carrier district office in los angeles about this problem and was told that that office had no jurisdiction in the matter. The reporter also has written an official highly placed in the department of transportation and is awaiting a response. The reporter asked that the analyst remove 'or icy' from his report and this has been done. The reporter does not know if the runway in question had been sanded. The reporter was advised that the FAA safety hot line is available for his use and he promised to call today. The reporter flies mostly out of san. He believes that the runway at san is inadequate and is an accident waiting to happen as it has no overrun areas at either end.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: AN ACR FO IS CONCERNED WITH TKOF ABORTS ON WET RWYS AND WITH OPERATING FROM A RWY WITH HARD-PACKED ICE ON THE FAR END.
Narrative: AT ORD ON FEB/THU/94 WE TAXIED OUT TO RWY 32L AT TXWY T10. THE TXWYS WERE HARD PACKED SNOW AND ICE. RWY 32L WAS CLR AS FAR AS WE COULD SEE AS WE TAXIED ONTO THE RWY. AS WE APCHED V1, WE SAW THAT, FROM JUST BEYOND THE POINT OF ROTATION, THE RWY WAS COVERED WITH HARD PACKED SNOW. I DO NOT THINK THAT THE AIRPLANE COULD HAVE BEEN STOPPED ON THE RWY IF AN ABORT HAD BEEN INITIATED A FEW SECONDS BEFORE V1. GOING OFF THE END OF RWY 32L MAY NOT BE TOO SERIOUS DUE TO A CLRWAY. I AM DEEPLY TROUBLED ABOUT JETLINER ARPTS THAT HAVE OBSTRUCTIONS AT THE ENDS OF THE RWYS (NO CLRWAYS). THIS MAKES NO ALLOWANCE FOR ERROR IN A HIGH SPD ABORT WHEN OPERATING AT OR NEAR RWY LIMIT WT ON A DRY RWY. THERE IS NO CERTIFICATION REQUIREMENT FOR A WET RWY IN ACCELERATE-STOP DISTANCE. THIS MEANS TO ME THAT A JETLINER OPERATING AT RWY LIMIT WT, WHERE FIELD LENGTH IS LIMITING, WILL NOT STOP ON A WET RWY DURING AN ABORTED TKOF AT V1. FAR 25.109 DOES NOT INCLUDE WET RWYS. FAR 139.309 AND 77.25 SHOULD NEVER BE 'GRANDFATHERED!' CALLBACK CONVERSATION WITH RPTR REVEALED THE FOLLOWING INFO: THE RPTR STATES THAT HE HAS WRITTEN THE ACR DISTRICT OFFICE IN LOS ANGELES ABOUT THIS PROB AND WAS TOLD THAT THAT OFFICE HAD NO JURISDICTION IN THE MATTER. THE RPTR ALSO HAS WRITTEN AN OFFICIAL HIGHLY PLACED IN THE DEPT OF TRANSPORTATION AND IS AWAITING A RESPONSE. THE RPTR ASKED THAT THE ANALYST REMOVE 'OR ICY' FROM HIS RPT AND THIS HAS BEEN DONE. THE RPTR DOES NOT KNOW IF THE RWY IN QUESTION HAD BEEN SANDED. THE RPTR WAS ADVISED THAT THE FAA SAFETY HOT LINE IS AVAILABLE FOR HIS USE AND HE PROMISED TO CALL TODAY. THE RPTR FLIES MOSTLY OUT OF SAN. HE BELIEVES THAT THE RWY AT SAN IS INADEQUATE AND IS AN ACCIDENT WAITING TO HAPPEN AS IT HAS NO OVERRUN AREAS AT EITHER END.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.