37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 266004 |
Time | |
Date | 199403 |
Day | Wed |
Local Time Of Day | 0601 To 1200 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : lax |
State Reference | CA |
Altitude | agl bound lower : 0 agl bound upper : 0 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Commercial Fixed Wing |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Navigation In Use | Other Other |
Flight Phase | ground other : taxi |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 161 flight time total : 11931 flight time type : 256 |
ASRS Report | 266004 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : atp pilot : commercial pilot : instrument pilot : flight engineer |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 210 flight time total : 6500 flight time type : 2000 |
ASRS Report | 266232 |
Events | |
Anomaly | incursion : runway non adherence : clearance other anomaly other |
Independent Detector | other controllera |
Resolutory Action | flight crew : exited adverse environment flight crew : rejected takeoff other |
Consequence | faa : reviewed incident with flight crew |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation |
Situations | |
ATC Facility | procedure or policy : unspecified |
Airport | other physical facility |
Narrative:
We were taxiing out at lax after being pushed from gate. We were cleared to runway 25R via the outer. In this area the ramp becomes the inner taxiway without any visual identify and the outer is the first taxiway one comes to visually. I am relatively new to lax and mistook the outer taxiway as the inner and thought runway 25R to be the outer taxiway. We did not see the hold short line for runway 25R and crossed it. As we did so lax ground control told us to stop. We did so prior to entering runway 25R. A 727 aborted their takeoff and once they were clear first officer runway 25R, we were told by lax ground to taxi onto runway 25R at taxiway 45 and came off the runway at taxiway 42 to continue on the outer for takeoff. We never saw the hold short line for runway 25R and the tower subsequently told us that it didn't happen all that infrequently plus the hold short line was scheduled for repainting that day. Another factor was that there was another aircraft with their nosewheel light on directly opposite to me on taxiway coming off runway 25L that had my attention. It was due to an alert tower and ground controller that a serious problem was avoided. As a possible remedy the instructions for taxi might be changed to via the ramp rather than the inner and via juliet rather than the outer. I blame concentrating on the opposite aircraft, lack of visual cues and unfamiliarity with lax as the main problems. Supplemental information from acn 266232: I feel that clearance phraseology of 'taxi 25R via ramp to kilo' and 'taxi 25R via juliet' would preclude much confusion as compared to 'taxi W54 via inner' and 'taxi 25R via the outer.' when proceeding from the ramp when one hears 'taxi via the outer' the thought is to cross one taxiway and proceed to the next. Since the ramp is referred to as the 'inner' at lax, this becomes very confusing.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: NEAR RWY INCURSION WITH DEP TFC PERFORMING TKOF ABORT.
Narrative: WE WERE TAXIING OUT AT LAX AFTER BEING PUSHED FROM GATE. WE WERE CLRED TO RWY 25R VIA THE OUTER. IN THIS AREA THE RAMP BECOMES THE INNER TXWY WITHOUT ANY VISUAL IDENT AND THE OUTER IS THE FIRST TXWY ONE COMES TO VISUALLY. I AM RELATIVELY NEW TO LAX AND MISTOOK THE OUTER TXWY AS THE INNER AND THOUGHT RWY 25R TO BE THE OUTER TXWY. WE DID NOT SEE THE HOLD SHORT LINE FOR RWY 25R AND CROSSED IT. AS WE DID SO LAX GND CTL TOLD US TO STOP. WE DID SO PRIOR TO ENTERING RWY 25R. A 727 ABORTED THEIR TKOF AND ONCE THEY WERE CLR FO RWY 25R, WE WERE TOLD BY LAX GND TO TAXI ONTO RWY 25R AT TXWY 45 AND CAME OFF THE RWY AT TXWY 42 TO CONTINUE ON THE OUTER FOR TKOF. WE NEVER SAW THE HOLD SHORT LINE FOR RWY 25R AND THE TWR SUBSEQUENTLY TOLD US THAT IT DIDN'T HAPPEN ALL THAT INFREQUENTLY PLUS THE HOLD SHORT LINE WAS SCHEDULED FOR REPAINTING THAT DAY. ANOTHER FACTOR WAS THAT THERE WAS ANOTHER ACFT WITH THEIR NOSEWHEEL LIGHT ON DIRECTLY OPPOSITE TO ME ON TXWY COMING OFF RWY 25L THAT HAD MY ATTN. IT WAS DUE TO AN ALERT TWR AND GND CTLR THAT A SERIOUS PROB WAS AVOIDED. AS A POSSIBLE REMEDY THE INSTRUCTIONS FOR TAXI MIGHT BE CHANGED TO VIA THE RAMP RATHER THAN THE INNER AND VIA JULIET RATHER THAN THE OUTER. I BLAME CONCENTRATING ON THE OPPOSITE ACFT, LACK OF VISUAL CUES AND UNFAMILIARITY WITH LAX AS THE MAIN PROBS. SUPPLEMENTAL INFORMATION FROM ACN 266232: I FEEL THAT CLRNC PHRASEOLOGY OF 'TAXI 25R VIA RAMP TO KILO' AND 'TAXI 25R VIA JULIET' WOULD PRECLUDE MUCH CONFUSION AS COMPARED TO 'TAXI W54 VIA INNER' AND 'TAXI 25R VIA THE OUTER.' WHEN PROCEEDING FROM THE RAMP WHEN ONE HEARS 'TAXI VIA THE OUTER' THE THOUGHT IS TO CROSS ONE TXWY AND PROCEED TO THE NEXT. SINCE THE RAMP IS REFERRED TO AS THE 'INNER' AT LAX, THIS BECOMES VERY CONFUSING.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.