Possible runway incursion in air carrier large transport crossing the runway hold line.

Attributes
ACN	275579
Time
Date	199406
Day	Wed
Local Time Of Day	0601 To 1200
Place
Locale Reference	airport : roc
State Reference	NY
Altitude	agl bound lower : 0 agl bound upper : 0
Environment
Flight Conditions	VMC
Light	Daylight
Aircraft 1
Operator	common carrier : air carrier
Make Model Name	B727 Undifferentiated or Other Model
Operating Under FAR Part	Part 121
Flight Phase	ground : holding landing other
Flight Plan	IFR
Person 1
Affiliation	company : air carrier
Function	flight crew : second officer
Qualification	pilot : flight engineer pilot : instrument pilot : atp pilot : commercial
Experience	flight time last 90 days : 150 flight time total : 2800 flight time type : 600
ASRS Report	275579
Person 2
Affiliation	company : air carrier
Function	flight crew : captain oversight : pic
Qualification	pilot : atp
Events
Anomaly	incursion : runway non adherence : clearance other anomaly other
Independent Detector	other flight crewa
Resolutory Action	none taken : anomaly accepted
Consequence	Other
Supplementary
Primary Problem	Airport
Air Traffic Incident	Pilot Deviation
Situations
Airport	other physical facility

Narrative:

While on landing rollout on runway 4 at roc, I heard the tower tell another flight to hold until we crossed his runway. We were below 80 KTS with a couple of thousand ft from the intersection. The captain directed the first officer to tell tower we would be able to hold short of the intersection (to let the other aircraft takeoff). Tower acknowledged and informed the other aircraft. At about 30 KTS, I noticed a well-worn double and dashed yellow line ahead of the aircraft. At the same time, the aircraft started to drift to the right (highly unusual) and I noticed the captain working the brakes as the aircraft gradually slowed. I saw very heavy deposits of rubber on the area we were trying to stop. The yellow line passed under our nose as we came to a stop. In the last few ft of roll, I felt the anti-skid cycling once or twice. We were 50 ft right of centerline about 5-10 degrees off heading. As we stopped, tower cleared the other aircraft to takeoff. My immediate concern was: are we too close to the runway? I estimated we were still 100-130 ft from the runway and a dc-10 would have no problem taking off safely. I then looked to the right and saw the small aircraft was already airborne and would pass our lateral position 50-100 ft AGL. There was no incursion. There was never an unsafe situation. I could not see the yellow line we passed from my position in the cockpit but I did not think the main wheels had passed it. Tower cleared us to use the intersecting runway to taxi to our ramp. We could not find a depiction of the 'hold line' on the airport display and I sensed it came up on us sooner than we expected. In the few seconds between when we stopped and the tower cleared us to taxi there was concern in the cockpit as to whether we had a brake or tire problem. Everything looked good in the cockpit. No problems were noted on the postflt. Maintenance checked out the anti-skid system with no problems found. In retrospect, we should have at least queried tower when we stopped if our position would suffice. As it was, there was no comment or communication from tower concerning our position or the fact we had rolled past a 'hold line' on the active runway.

Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: POSSIBLE RWY INCURSION IN ACR LGT XING THE RWY HOLD LINE.

Narrative: WHILE ON LNDG ROLLOUT ON RWY 4 AT ROC, I HEARD THE TWR TELL ANOTHER FLT TO HOLD UNTIL WE CROSSED HIS RWY. WE WERE BELOW 80 KTS WITH A COUPLE OF THOUSAND FT FROM THE INTXN. THE CAPT DIRECTED THE FO TO TELL TWR WE WOULD BE ABLE TO HOLD SHORT OF THE INTXN (TO LET THE OTHER ACFT TKOF). TWR ACKNOWLEDGED AND INFORMED THE OTHER ACFT. AT ABOUT 30 KTS, I NOTICED A WELL-WORN DOUBLE AND DASHED YELLOW LINE AHEAD OF THE ACFT. AT THE SAME TIME, THE ACFT STARTED TO DRIFT TO THE R (HIGHLY UNUSUAL) AND I NOTICED THE CAPT WORKING THE BRAKES AS THE ACFT GRADUALLY SLOWED. I SAW VERY HVY DEPOSITS OF RUBBER ON THE AREA WE WERE TRYING TO STOP. THE YELLOW LINE PASSED UNDER OUR NOSE AS WE CAME TO A STOP. IN THE LAST FEW FT OF ROLL, I FELT THE ANTI-SKID CYCLING ONCE OR TWICE. WE WERE 50 FT R OF CTRLINE ABOUT 5-10 DEGS OFF HDG. AS WE STOPPED, TWR CLRED THE OTHER ACFT TO TKOF. MY IMMEDIATE CONCERN WAS: ARE WE TOO CLOSE TO THE RWY? I ESTIMATED WE WERE STILL 100-130 FT FROM THE RWY AND A DC-10 WOULD HAVE NO PROB TAKING OFF SAFELY. I THEN LOOKED TO THE R AND SAW THE SMALL ACFT WAS ALREADY AIRBORNE AND WOULD PASS OUR LATERAL POS 50-100 FT AGL. THERE WAS NO INCURSION. THERE WAS NEVER AN UNSAFE SIT. I COULD NOT SEE THE YELLOW LINE WE PASSED FROM MY POS IN THE COCKPIT BUT I DID NOT THINK THE MAIN WHEELS HAD PASSED IT. TWR CLRED US TO USE THE INTERSECTING RWY TO TAXI TO OUR RAMP. WE COULD NOT FIND A DEPICTION OF THE 'HOLD LINE' ON THE ARPT DISPLAY AND I SENSED IT CAME UP ON US SOONER THAN WE EXPECTED. IN THE FEW SECONDS BTWN WHEN WE STOPPED AND THE TWR CLRED US TO TAXI THERE WAS CONCERN IN THE COCKPIT AS TO WHETHER WE HAD A BRAKE OR TIRE PROB. EVERYTHING LOOKED GOOD IN THE COCKPIT. NO PROBS WERE NOTED ON THE POSTFLT. MAINT CHKED OUT THE ANTI-SKID SYS WITH NO PROBS FOUND. IN RETROSPECT, WE SHOULD HAVE AT LEAST QUERIED TWR WHEN WE STOPPED IF OUR POS WOULD SUFFICE. AS IT WAS, THERE WAS NO COMMENT OR COM FROM TWR CONCERNING OUR POS OR THE FACT WE HAD ROLLED PAST A 'HOLD LINE' ON THE ACTIVE RWY.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.