Narrative:

Backgnd: based upon several pilot inquiries about the legality of accepting VFR climbs to the west from las vegas runway 25, the principal operating inspector (poi) for ab airlines confirmed that paragraph B-33 of the ab operations specifications requires all operations under part 121 be conducted under IFR. Most acrs do accept VFR climbs to the west as a short cut to bty VOR, located on J-92. However, with the FAA ruling that operations not specifically exempted must be conducted under IFR rules, a joint management/airline pilot association statement was issued and distributed to all pilots, stating that VFR wbound climbs will not be requested, that flcs must utilize the oasis SID until such time that radar vectors can be provided by las departure control, and that those vectors can be expected when above the minimum vectoring altitude of 8500 ft MSL, traffic permitting. Thus, the climb will be under IFR rules and meet operations specifications, paragraph B-33 limitations. My first officer requested an instrument straight out (iso) departure through las clearance delivery for our flight to reno, nv. He told me he had requested it but with recent policy issues in mind, I indicated we would stay with the oasis SID. The first officer was flying. I was working the radios. On initial contact with las departure I called out of altitude, '...climbing to one-seven thousand with (the oasis) restrs.' departure indicated radar contact followed immediately by '...cross one-two DME west of las vegas at or above 8000 ft. Climb unrestr to one-seven thousand, cleared direct to hiden intersection.' at this point I believed I was still on an IFR climb and proceeded wbound, crossing the 12 DME fix at or above about 9000 ft MSL. Shortly thereafter departure called traffic at 2 O'clock. I called the traffic in sight. Then departure called us out to the other aircraft and added '...traffic at 2 O'clock, climbing VFR to one-seven thousand.' since I was in radar contact and had already made the 12 NM fix restr I believed I was still climbing IFR. We passed the traffic, and were shortly handed off the ZLA who cleared us direct to bty. While I may have been in technical violation of the operations specifications, there is still confusion on what service is being provided on these wbound climbs. Until a new SID is developed, I will fly the oasis exclusively until ATC provides radar vectors. Other carriers need to take note of terrain separation on VFR climbs and ensure compliance with operations specifications. In my case terrain separation was never an issue but the rules are written to cover many sits.

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Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: MISUNDERSTANDING OF IFR CLRNC.

Narrative: BACKGND: BASED UPON SEVERAL PLT INQUIRIES ABOUT THE LEGALITY OF ACCEPTING VFR CLBS TO THE W FROM LAS VEGAS RWY 25, THE PRINCIPAL OPERATING INSPECTOR (POI) FOR AB AIRLINES CONFIRMED THAT PARAGRAPH B-33 OF THE AB OPS SPECS REQUIRES ALL OPS UNDER PART 121 BE CONDUCTED UNDER IFR. MOST ACRS DO ACCEPT VFR CLBS TO THE W AS A SHORT CUT TO BTY VOR, LOCATED ON J-92. HOWEVER, WITH THE FAA RULING THAT OPS NOT SPECIFICALLY EXEMPTED MUST BE CONDUCTED UNDER IFR RULES, A JOINT MGMNT/AIRLINE PLT ASSOCIATION STATEMENT WAS ISSUED AND DISTRIBUTED TO ALL PLTS, STATING THAT VFR WBOUND CLBS WILL NOT BE REQUESTED, THAT FLCS MUST UTILIZE THE OASIS SID UNTIL SUCH TIME THAT RADAR VECTORS CAN BE PROVIDED BY LAS DEP CTL, AND THAT THOSE VECTORS CAN BE EXPECTED WHEN ABOVE THE MINIMUM VECTORING ALT OF 8500 FT MSL, TFC PERMITTING. THUS, THE CLB WILL BE UNDER IFR RULES AND MEET OPS SPECS, PARAGRAPH B-33 LIMITATIONS. MY FO REQUESTED AN INST STRAIGHT OUT (ISO) DEP THROUGH LAS CLRNC DELIVERY FOR OUR FLT TO RENO, NV. HE TOLD ME HE HAD REQUESTED IT BUT WITH RECENT POLICY ISSUES IN MIND, I INDICATED WE WOULD STAY WITH THE OASIS SID. THE FO WAS FLYING. I WAS WORKING THE RADIOS. ON INITIAL CONTACT WITH LAS DEP I CALLED OUT OF ALT, '...CLBING TO ONE-SEVEN THOUSAND WITH (THE OASIS) RESTRS.' DEP INDICATED RADAR CONTACT FOLLOWED IMMEDIATELY BY '...CROSS ONE-TWO DME WEST OF LAS VEGAS AT OR ABOVE 8000 FT. CLB UNRESTR TO ONE-SEVEN THOUSAND, CLRED DIRECT TO HIDEN INTXN.' AT THIS POINT I BELIEVED I WAS STILL ON AN IFR CLB AND PROCEEDED WBOUND, XING THE 12 DME FIX AT OR ABOVE ABOUT 9000 FT MSL. SHORTLY THEREAFTER DEP CALLED TFC AT 2 O'CLOCK. I CALLED THE TFC IN SIGHT. THEN DEP CALLED US OUT TO THE OTHER ACFT AND ADDED '...TFC AT 2 O'CLOCK, CLBING VFR TO ONE-SEVEN THOUSAND.' SINCE I WAS IN RADAR CONTACT AND HAD ALREADY MADE THE 12 NM FIX RESTR I BELIEVED I WAS STILL CLBING IFR. WE PASSED THE TFC, AND WERE SHORTLY HANDED OFF THE ZLA WHO CLRED US DIRECT TO BTY. WHILE I MAY HAVE BEEN IN TECHNICAL VIOLATION OF THE OPS SPECS, THERE IS STILL CONFUSION ON WHAT SVC IS BEING PROVIDED ON THESE WBOUND CLBS. UNTIL A NEW SID IS DEVELOPED, I WILL FLY THE OASIS EXCLUSIVELY UNTIL ATC PROVIDES RADAR VECTORS. OTHER CARRIERS NEED TO TAKE NOTE OF TERRAIN SEPARATION ON VFR CLBS AND ENSURE COMPLIANCE WITH OPS SPECS. IN MY CASE TERRAIN SEPARATION WAS NEVER AN ISSUE BUT THE RULES ARE WRITTEN TO COVER MANY SITS.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.