37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 295379 |
Time | |
Date | 199502 |
Day | Fri |
Local Time Of Day | 1801 To 2400 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | atc facility : ord |
State Reference | IL |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 5000 msl bound upper : 5000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | IMC |
Light | Night |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : ord |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | B747-C/F |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Navigation In Use | Other |
Flight Phase | descent other |
Route In Use | enroute : on vectors |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 150 flight time total : 10000 |
ASRS Report | 295379 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : commercial pilot : instrument |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 180 flight time total : 7000 |
ASRS Report | 295548 |
Events | |
Anomaly | altitude deviation : overshoot non adherence : clearance |
Independent Detector | other controllera other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | flight crew : returned to intended course or assigned course |
Consequence | faa : reviewed incident with flight crew |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation |
Narrative:
After passing overhead ord VOR and being vectored on downwind leg for runway 27L, I reduced speed to 190 KTS which was maneuver speed. At about the same time, we were cleared from 7000-5000 ft. The approach controller then called and asked our speed -- when we replied 190 KTS the controller scolded us about slowing up without notifying him or asking his permission. This resulted in 3 angry pilots and 1 angry controller. I was the captain and I was flying the aircraft without autoplt or flight director. I asked the copilot to ask for approach's telephone number. I wanted to discuss what was expected of us since maneuver speed on downwind leg is normal and we were not speed controled. Then approach asked our altitude. I was at about 4600 ft on my altimeter and immediately started to climb. The copilot replied that we were at 5000 ft and he would rechk the transponder. We returned to 5000 ft on my altitude in a few seconds. As far as I know there was no traffic conflict. I think the following points are important: 1) all 3 of us allowed ourselves to be distraction by our anger at being scolded over the air, especially me since I was flying the aircraft. 2) the excursion very probably would not have happened if I was using autoplt and/or flight director. 3) the altitude warning system on the 747 is pitiful with a tiny blue warning light, and a weak chime. 4) I don't know if the copilot's altimeter was lagging mine or if he misstated our altitude. Supplemental information from acn 295548: approaching O'hare from northwest, being vectored to land runway 27L. Last clearance from approach controller was to 'descend to and maintain 5000 ft, resume normal speed.' (previous clearance was to maintain 250 KTS). Approaching the O'hare VOR from the northwest, captain slowed aircraft to vma -- about 180 KTS. Shortly after VOR passage, controller inquired as to our speed. When told he became very upset and proceeded to lament and rant over the fact we'd slowed down. We, the crew found this puzzling and distracting, and allowed the aircraft to descend to 4600 ft before it was brought to our attention.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: ACR X UNAUTH DSCNT BELOW ASSIGNED ALT. ALTDEV.
Narrative: AFTER PASSING OVERHEAD ORD VOR AND BEING VECTORED ON DOWNWIND LEG FOR RWY 27L, I REDUCED SPD TO 190 KTS WHICH WAS MANEUVER SPD. AT ABOUT THE SAME TIME, WE WERE CLRED FROM 7000-5000 FT. THE APCH CTLR THEN CALLED AND ASKED OUR SPD -- WHEN WE REPLIED 190 KTS THE CTLR SCOLDED US ABOUT SLOWING UP WITHOUT NOTIFYING HIM OR ASKING HIS PERMISSION. THIS RESULTED IN 3 ANGRY PLTS AND 1 ANGRY CTLR. I WAS THE CAPT AND I WAS FLYING THE ACFT WITHOUT AUTOPLT OR FLT DIRECTOR. I ASKED THE COPLT TO ASK FOR APCH'S TELEPHONE NUMBER. I WANTED TO DISCUSS WHAT WAS EXPECTED OF US SINCE MANEUVER SPD ON DOWNWIND LEG IS NORMAL AND WE WERE NOT SPD CTLED. THEN APCH ASKED OUR ALT. I WAS AT ABOUT 4600 FT ON MY ALTIMETER AND IMMEDIATELY STARTED TO CLB. THE COPLT REPLIED THAT WE WERE AT 5000 FT AND HE WOULD RECHK THE XPONDER. WE RETURNED TO 5000 FT ON MY ALT IN A FEW SECONDS. AS FAR AS I KNOW THERE WAS NO TFC CONFLICT. I THINK THE FOLLOWING POINTS ARE IMPORTANT: 1) ALL 3 OF US ALLOWED OURSELVES TO BE DISTR BY OUR ANGER AT BEING SCOLDED OVER THE AIR, ESPECIALLY ME SINCE I WAS FLYING THE ACFT. 2) THE EXCURSION VERY PROBABLY WOULD NOT HAVE HAPPENED IF I WAS USING AUTOPLT AND/OR FLT DIRECTOR. 3) THE ALT WARNING SYS ON THE 747 IS PITIFUL WITH A TINY BLUE WARNING LIGHT, AND A WEAK CHIME. 4) I DON'T KNOW IF THE COPLT'S ALTIMETER WAS LAGGING MINE OR IF HE MISSTATED OUR ALT. SUPPLEMENTAL INFO FROM ACN 295548: APCHING O'HARE FROM NW, BEING VECTORED TO LAND RWY 27L. LAST CLRNC FROM APCH CTLR WAS TO 'DSND TO AND MAINTAIN 5000 FT, RESUME NORMAL SPD.' (PREVIOUS CLRNC WAS TO MAINTAIN 250 KTS). APCHING THE O'HARE VOR FROM THE NW, CAPT SLOWED ACFT TO VMA -- ABOUT 180 KTS. SHORTLY AFTER VOR PASSAGE, CTLR INQUIRED AS TO OUR SPD. WHEN TOLD HE BECAME VERY UPSET AND PROCEEDED TO LAMENT AND RANT OVER THE FACT WE'D SLOWED DOWN. WE, THE CREW FOUND THIS PUZZLING AND DISTRACTING, AND ALLOWED THE ACFT TO DSND TO 4600 FT BEFORE IT WAS BROUGHT TO OUR ATTN.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.