37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 296121 |
Time | |
Date | 199502 |
Day | Fri |
Local Time Of Day | 0601 To 1200 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | atc facility : pie |
State Reference | FL |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 25000 msl bound upper : 27000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | artcc : zjx |
Operator | general aviation : corporate |
Make Model Name | Commercial Fixed Wing |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 91 |
Navigation In Use | Other Other |
Flight Phase | descent other |
Route In Use | enroute : on vectors |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | Other |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 70 flight time total : 14000 flight time type : 20 |
ASRS Report | 296121 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | Other |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Events | |
Anomaly | altitude deviation : crossing restriction not met altitude deviation : overshoot non adherence : clearance |
Independent Detector | other controllera |
Resolutory Action | controller : issued new clearance other |
Consequence | Other |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation |
Narrative:
We were cleared to descend and cross pie at FL270. My captain understood we were cleared to cross srq at FL270. When I questioned our rate of descent, we discussed the crossing restr, and he called jacksonville center for clarification. The reply to his question, 'were we cleared to cross srq or pie at FL270?' was 'cross pie at FL270, descend and maintenance FL240.''contact ZMA.' we both took the FL240 to be a new clearance, nullifying the FL270 at pie. We were passing FL250 when we crossed pie when miami asked us our altitude which we reported as out of 25500 ft for FL240. They said we were to main FL270 till crossing pie. We asked 'what should we do?' controller said 'no problem, main FL240.' in my estimation, and after reviewing the situation with my captain, I think the wording of the clearance to FL240 was confusing and easily misunderstood. If it had said 'cross pie at FL270, then descend and maintain' or 'cross pie at FL270. After crossing pie, descend and maintain' it would have been clear and understood.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: CORP LTT DSNDS BELOW ASSIGNED ALT AND MISSES XING RESTR.
Narrative: WE WERE CLRED TO DSND AND CROSS PIE AT FL270. MY CAPT UNDERSTOOD WE WERE CLRED TO CROSS SRQ AT FL270. WHEN I QUESTIONED OUR RATE OF DSCNT, WE DISCUSSED THE XING RESTR, AND HE CALLED JACKSONVILLE CTR FOR CLARIFICATION. THE REPLY TO HIS QUESTION, 'WERE WE CLRED TO CROSS SRQ OR PIE AT FL270?' WAS 'CROSS PIE AT FL270, DSND AND MAINT FL240.''CONTACT ZMA.' WE BOTH TOOK THE FL240 TO BE A NEW CLRNC, NULLIFYING THE FL270 AT PIE. WE WERE PASSING FL250 WHEN WE CROSSED PIE WHEN MIAMI ASKED US OUR ALT WHICH WE RPTED AS OUT OF 25500 FT FOR FL240. THEY SAID WE WERE TO MAIN FL270 TILL XING PIE. WE ASKED 'WHAT SHOULD WE DO?' CTLR SAID 'NO PROB, MAIN FL240.' IN MY ESTIMATION, AND AFTER REVIEWING THE SIT WITH MY CAPT, I THINK THE WORDING OF THE CLRNC TO FL240 WAS CONFUSING AND EASILY MISUNDERSTOOD. IF IT HAD SAID 'CROSS PIE AT FL270, THEN DSND AND MAINTAIN' OR 'CROSS PIE AT FL270. AFTER XING PIE, DSND AND MAINTAIN' IT WOULD HAVE BEEN CLR AND UNDERSTOOD.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.