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|
Attributes | |
ACN | 296318 |
Time | |
Date | 199502 |
Day | Thu |
Local Time Of Day | 0601 To 1200 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | atc facility : fay |
State Reference | NC |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 15000 msl bound upper : 15300 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Fokker 100 |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Navigation In Use | Other Other |
Flight Phase | cruise other |
Route In Use | enroute airway : zdc |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Aircraft 2 | |
Operator | other |
Make Model Name | Fighter |
Operating Under FAR Part | other : other |
Navigation In Use | Other Other |
Flight Phase | cruise other |
Flight Plan | VFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp pilot : cfi pilot : flight engineer |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 140 flight time total : 10800 flight time type : 2100 |
ASRS Report | 296318 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation |
Narrative:
Flight from clt to fay in cruise at 15000 ft at lills intersection V296. ZDC advised traffic at 1200 ft low, opposite direction, 14500 ft about 5 mi. No TCASII return until 3 mi. First TCASII return was a RA 'climb, climb now.' we had not established visual at this point so I disconnected the autoplt and immediately began climb to comply with RA. At 15300 ft in the climb, first officer stated 'there's 2! 1 above us!' I immediately stopped climb to avoid second aircraft visually. They were gone as fast as they appeared -- 2 F15's -- 1 transponder, at different altitudes, right on the lills departure transition from clt and V296 arrival route to fay. First officer stated the F15's appeared to be in afterburner, in any case they were so fast we were lucky to see and avoid the non-transponder aircraft. ZDC was advised of the situation and compliance with RA. They apologized for not giving a vector but said the aircraft just 'popped up' fast moving and that he 'was not talking to them. Maybe atl was!' shouldn't these guys be at the same altitude if they're using only 1 transponder? Maybe they could also be talking to someone when on a victor airway -- even VFR they aren't exactly like spotting a cessna when they're moving so fast. Callback conversation with reporter revealed the following information: reporter called back and stated that the ZDC controller thought the F-15's came from pope AFB. They were not near any MOA's that he could determine but were on a victor airway. The flight had been in progress from clt to fay, nc. The controller added, that in retrospect, he should but there was just a short time as this was pop up traffic and he was not communicating with the military aircraft.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: NMAC. ACR FK-100 AND A FORMATION FLT OF 2 F-15'S. POP UP TFC. NORAC TFC.
Narrative: FLT FROM CLT TO FAY IN CRUISE AT 15000 FT AT LILLS INTXN V296. ZDC ADVISED TFC AT 1200 FT LOW, OPPOSITE DIRECTION, 14500 FT ABOUT 5 MI. NO TCASII RETURN UNTIL 3 MI. FIRST TCASII RETURN WAS A RA 'CLB, CLB NOW.' WE HAD NOT ESTABLISHED VISUAL AT THIS POINT SO I DISCONNECTED THE AUTOPLT AND IMMEDIATELY BEGAN CLB TO COMPLY WITH RA. AT 15300 FT IN THE CLB, FO STATED 'THERE'S 2! 1 ABOVE US!' I IMMEDIATELY STOPPED CLB TO AVOID SECOND ACFT VISUALLY. THEY WERE GONE AS FAST AS THEY APPEARED -- 2 F15'S -- 1 XPONDER, AT DIFFERENT ALTS, R ON THE LILLS DEP TRANSITION FROM CLT AND V296 ARR RTE TO FAY. FO STATED THE F15'S APPEARED TO BE IN AFTERBURNER, IN ANY CASE THEY WERE SO FAST WE WERE LUCKY TO SEE AND AVOID THE NON-XPONDER ACFT. ZDC WAS ADVISED OF THE SIT AND COMPLIANCE WITH RA. THEY APOLOGIZED FOR NOT GIVING A VECTOR BUT SAID THE ACFT JUST 'POPPED UP' FAST MOVING AND THAT HE 'WAS NOT TALKING TO THEM. MAYBE ATL WAS!' SHOULDN'T THESE GUYS BE AT THE SAME ALT IF THEY'RE USING ONLY 1 XPONDER? MAYBE THEY COULD ALSO BE TALKING TO SOMEONE WHEN ON A VICTOR AIRWAY -- EVEN VFR THEY AREN'T EXACTLY LIKE SPOTTING A CESSNA WHEN THEY'RE MOVING SO FAST. CALLBACK CONVERSATION WITH RPTR REVEALED THE FOLLOWING INFO: RPTR CALLED BACK AND STATED THAT THE ZDC CTLR THOUGHT THE F-15'S CAME FROM POPE AFB. THEY WERE NOT NEAR ANY MOA'S THAT HE COULD DETERMINE BUT WERE ON A VICTOR AIRWAY. THE FLT HAD BEEN IN PROGRESS FROM CLT TO FAY, NC. THE CTLR ADDED, THAT IN RETROSPECT, HE SHOULD BUT THERE WAS JUST A SHORT TIME AS THIS WAS POP UP TFC AND HE WAS NOT COMMUNICATING WITH THE MIL ACFT.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.