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Captain of an medium large transport inadvertently taxied beyond runway hold short line due to faded and obscured airport runway signs.
| Attributes | |
| ACN | 297044 |
| Time | |
| Date | 199502 |
| Day | Wed |
| Local Time Of Day | 0601 To 1200 |
| Place | |
| Locale Reference | airport : isp |
| State Reference | NY |
| Altitude | agl bound lower : 0 agl bound upper : 0 |
| Environment | |
| Flight Conditions | VMC |
| Light | Daylight |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | Fokker 100 |
| Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
| Navigation In Use | Other Other |
| Flight Phase | ground other : taxi |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Person 1 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
| Qualification | pilot : atp |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 100 flight time total : 11000 flight time type : 2000 |
| ASRS Report | 297044 |
| Person 2 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : first officer |
| Qualification | pilot : atp |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 200 flight time total : 8000 flight time type : 2000 |
| ASRS Report | 297251 |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | incursion : runway non adherence : clearance other anomaly other |
| Independent Detector | other controllera |
| Resolutory Action | other |
| Consequence | Other |
| Supplementary | |
| Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
| Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation |
| Situations | |
| Airport | other physical facility |
Narrative:
While taxiing out to runway 33L for takeoff, ground control suddenly asked if we were taxiing to runway 33L. First officer replied 'yes.' ground said that we were on runway 33L and to contact tower. I thought that we were approaching runway 33L but not yet on it. Runway 33L pavement is much blacker than taxiway and the glare was still out in front of us. I thought back to taxi out, and do not remember seeing a red runway 33L sign in grass. I saw a black and gold sign in grass but did not recognize it as the type of sign associated with a hold line. Those are red. Once in position I could see off to my left a faded, old, hold short line set unusually far back from runway 33L. Departure end of runway 33L coincides with departure end of runway 28 about 1/4 the way down runway 28. Signs have numerous arrows going every which way. I have never used runway 33L before -- only runway 6/24. That particular intersection is made up of not only runway 33L and runway 28 but also taxiway east and taxiway south. During taxi out at this unfamiliar and confusing airport we were starting an engine and running the before takeoff checklist. I was taxiing very slowly, hesitated at intersection of ramp and taxiway east, turned on taxiway east, never saw the hold short line or a red runway 33L sign, but did see the pavement for runway 33L (color change) up ahead. We would not, did not, actually place airplane on pavement of runway 33L. Callback conversation with reporter revealed the following information: reporter stated that she was not sure whether the hold short lines were really faded since she was looking back at them at a distance and she was going by what her first officer had said. She was very unfamiliar with the airport since it had been a long time since she had landed at that airport. She was in a FK100 type aircraft. She further stated that she was not on the runway itself even though she had passed the hold short line. However, she added that the tower was legally correct in stating that she was on the runway.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: CAPT OF AN MLG INADVERTENTLY TAXIED BEYOND RWY HOLD SHORT LINE DUE TO FADED AND OBSCURED ARPT RWY SIGNS.
Narrative: WHILE TAXIING OUT TO RWY 33L FOR TKOF, GND CTL SUDDENLY ASKED IF WE WERE TAXIING TO RWY 33L. FO REPLIED 'YES.' GND SAID THAT WE WERE ON RWY 33L AND TO CONTACT TWR. I THOUGHT THAT WE WERE APCHING RWY 33L BUT NOT YET ON IT. RWY 33L PAVEMENT IS MUCH BLACKER THAN TXWY AND THE GLARE WAS STILL OUT IN FRONT OF US. I THOUGHT BACK TO TAXI OUT, AND DO NOT REMEMBER SEEING A RED RWY 33L SIGN IN GRASS. I SAW A BLACK AND GOLD SIGN IN GRASS BUT DID NOT RECOGNIZE IT AS THE TYPE OF SIGN ASSOCIATED WITH A HOLD LINE. THOSE ARE RED. ONCE IN POS I COULD SEE OFF TO MY L A FADED, OLD, HOLD SHORT LINE SET UNUSUALLY FAR BACK FROM RWY 33L. DEP END OF RWY 33L COINCIDES WITH DEP END OF RWY 28 ABOUT 1/4 THE WAY DOWN RWY 28. SIGNS HAVE NUMEROUS ARROWS GOING EVERY WHICH WAY. I HAVE NEVER USED RWY 33L BEFORE -- ONLY RWY 6/24. THAT PARTICULAR INTXN IS MADE UP OF NOT ONLY RWY 33L AND RWY 28 BUT ALSO TXWY E AND TXWY S. DURING TAXI OUT AT THIS UNFAMILIAR AND CONFUSING ARPT WE WERE STARTING AN ENG AND RUNNING THE BEFORE TKOF CHKLIST. I WAS TAXIING VERY SLOWLY, HESITATED AT INTXN OF RAMP AND TXWY E, TURNED ON TXWY E, NEVER SAW THE HOLD SHORT LINE OR A RED RWY 33L SIGN, BUT DID SEE THE PAVEMENT FOR RWY 33L (COLOR CHANGE) UP AHEAD. WE WOULD NOT, DID NOT, ACTUALLY PLACE AIRPLANE ON PAVEMENT OF RWY 33L. CALLBACK CONVERSATION WITH RPTR REVEALED THE FOLLOWING INFO: RPTR STATED THAT SHE WAS NOT SURE WHETHER THE HOLD SHORT LINES WERE REALLY FADED SINCE SHE WAS LOOKING BACK AT THEM AT A DISTANCE AND SHE WAS GOING BY WHAT HER FO HAD SAID. SHE WAS VERY UNFAMILIAR WITH THE ARPT SINCE IT HAD BEEN A LONG TIME SINCE SHE HAD LANDED AT THAT ARPT. SHE WAS IN A FK100 TYPE ACFT. SHE FURTHER STATED THAT SHE WAS NOT ON THE RWY ITSELF EVEN THOUGH SHE HAD PASSED THE HOLD SHORT LINE. HOWEVER, SHE ADDED THAT THE TWR WAS LEGALLY CORRECT IN STATING THAT SHE WAS ON THE RWY.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.