37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 314170 |
Time | |
Date | 199508 |
Day | Mon |
Local Time Of Day | 0601 To 1200 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | atc facility : akl |
State Reference | TX |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 9500 msl bound upper : 9500 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | artcc : zfw |
Operator | general aviation : personal |
Make Model Name | Any Unknown or Unlisted Aircraft Manufacturer |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 91 |
Flight Phase | cruise other |
Flight Plan | None |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | Other |
Function | flight crew : single pilot |
Qualification | pilot : instrument |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 50 flight time total : 1500 flight time type : 600 |
ASRS Report | 314170 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | government : faa |
Function | controller : radar |
Qualification | controller : radar |
Events | |
Anomaly | other anomaly other other anomaly other |
Independent Detector | other controllera |
Resolutory Action | other |
Consequence | faa : reviewed incident with flight crew |
Supplementary | |
Air Traffic Incident | other |
Narrative:
In VFR cruise, eastbound at 9500 ft, VFR, flight following with ZFW, had just penetrated sheppard a-moa when center advised area was active. We advised center we could turn south (away from MOA) or descend to 9000 ft, requested his preference. Center response was we could either descend to 8500 ft (not a VFR altitude eastbound) for 7 to 8 miles or stay where we were and he would advise traffic. We elected to remain at 9500 ft. Center advised traffic in the MOA of VFR traffic at 9500 ft and as I recall requested that he remain above 10000 ft till further advised. After reflecting on this incident it occurred to me that my conversation with center may not have been a 'clearance' to penetrate the MOA, under VFR. My normal practice under VFR flight following is to request the status of MOA's on my route. I failed to do so in this case. Normally ATC would have either vectored me or requested an altitude change. In this case he offered no vector and an altitude which was not legal for our direction. By the time the exchange had taken place we were already inside the MOA and our time to be clear of it was only 3 to 4 mins, and since he had advised traffic (apparently several mi north of us) we elected to proceed and advised him. Approximately 10 mins later we penetrated the sheppard 3 MOA with no comment from center (it was apparently not active). In hindsight, I should have requested the status of the area from center before reaching it to allow time to deviation if necessary. In this case I probably should have turned south to clear the area but the response from center was confusing. At the time I considered his response a 'clearance' to enter.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: SMA TOLD MOA IS HOT BY CTR CTLR AND OFFERED A CHOICE OF A TURN OR A WAFDOF ALT. RPTR REFUSES, CTLR COORDS WITH TFC.
Narrative: IN VFR CRUISE, EBOUND AT 9500 FT, VFR, FLT FOLLOWING WITH ZFW, HAD JUST PENETRATED SHEPPARD A-MOA WHEN CTR ADVISED AREA WAS ACTIVE. WE ADVISED CTR WE COULD TURN S (AWAY FROM MOA) OR DSND TO 9000 FT, REQUESTED HIS PREFERENCE. CTR RESPONSE WAS WE COULD EITHER DSND TO 8500 FT (NOT A VFR ALT EBOUND) FOR 7 TO 8 MILES OR STAY WHERE WE WERE AND HE WOULD ADVISE TFC. WE ELECTED TO REMAIN AT 9500 FT. CTR ADVISED TFC IN THE MOA OF VFR TFC AT 9500 FT AND AS I RECALL REQUESTED THAT HE REMAIN ABOVE 10000 FT TILL FURTHER ADVISED. AFTER REFLECTING ON THIS INCIDENT IT OCCURRED TO ME THAT MY CONVERSATION WITH CTR MAY NOT HAVE BEEN A 'CLRNC' TO PENETRATE THE MOA, UNDER VFR. MY NORMAL PRACTICE UNDER VFR FLT FOLLOWING IS TO REQUEST THE STATUS OF MOA'S ON MY RTE. I FAILED TO DO SO IN THIS CASE. NORMALLY ATC WOULD HAVE EITHER VECTORED ME OR REQUESTED AN ALT CHANGE. IN THIS CASE HE OFFERED NO VECTOR AND AN ALT WHICH WAS NOT LEGAL FOR OUR DIRECTION. BY THE TIME THE EXCHANGE HAD TAKEN PLACE WE WERE ALREADY INSIDE THE MOA AND OUR TIME TO BE CLR OF IT WAS ONLY 3 TO 4 MINS, AND SINCE HE HAD ADVISED TFC (APPARENTLY SEVERAL MI N OF US) WE ELECTED TO PROCEED AND ADVISED HIM. APPROX 10 MINS LATER WE PENETRATED THE SHEPPARD 3 MOA WITH NO COMMENT FROM CTR (IT WAS APPARENTLY NOT ACTIVE). IN HINDSIGHT, I SHOULD HAVE REQUESTED THE STATUS OF THE AREA FROM CTR BEFORE REACHING IT TO ALLOW TIME TO DEV IF NECESSARY. IN THIS CASE I PROBABLY SHOULD HAVE TURNED S TO CLR THE AREA BUT THE RESPONSE FROM CTR WAS CONFUSING. AT THE TIME I CONSIDERED HIS RESPONSE A 'CLRNC' TO ENTER.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.