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Flight crew of a DC10 complained to tower controller about the separation between their landing aircraft and a B737 taking off on the same runway. The reporting controller reports that the minimum separation standard was exceeded by approximately 2000 ft.
| Attributes | |
| ACN | 341090 |
| Time | |
| Date | 199607 |
| Day | Tue |
| Local Time Of Day | 1801 To 2400 |
| Place | |
| Locale Reference | airport : phx |
| State Reference | AZ |
| Altitude | msl bound lower : 1200 msl bound upper : 1300 |
| Environment | |
| Flight Conditions | VMC |
| Light | Night |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Controlling Facilities | tower : phx |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | DC-10 Undifferentiated or Other Model |
| Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
| Navigation In Use | Other |
| Flight Phase | descent : approach landing other |
| Route In Use | arrival other |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Aircraft 2 | |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | B737 Undifferentiated or Other Model |
| Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
| Flight Phase | climbout : initial climbout : takeoff |
| Route In Use | departure other |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Person 1 | |
| Affiliation | government : faa |
| Function | controller : local |
| Qualification | other other : other |
| ASRS Report | 341090 |
| Person 2 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
| Qualification | pilot : atp |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | other anomaly other |
| Independent Detector | other flight crewa |
| Resolutory Action | other |
| Consequence | faa : reviewed incident with flight crew |
| Miss Distance | horizontal : 8000 vertical : 0 |
| Supplementary | |
| Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
| Air Traffic Incident | other |
| Situations | |
| ATC Facility | procedure or policy : unspecified |
Narrative:
This operation involved a B737 departure and the arrival of a DC10 (air carrier Y) on the same runway. The minimum separation requirement is 6000 ft longitudinal separation and airborne on the departing aircraft before the arriving aircraft crosses the landing threshold. In this case the departure was 8000 ft and airborne. After talking to the pilot on the phone it was clear he felt the operation was dangerous. Phx has the busiest two runway operation in the country. Both runways are used for arrs and departures. This operation described, occurs several times a day without complaint from the local pilots. The complaints occur from pilots that do not frequent phx very often. Over the yrs I have fielded several calls such as this and the pilot response is always the same. (The operation is dangerous). Unless the rules change, the industry needs to do a better job of teaching these separation requirements. I agree it would be safer to have arrival runways and departure runways, but this is not practical, at least not at phoenix.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: FLC OF A DC10 COMPLAINED TO TWR CTLR ABOUT THE SEPARATION BTWN THEIR LNDG ACFT AND A B737 TAKING OFF ON THE SAME RWY. THE RPTING CTLR RPTS THAT THE MINIMUM SEPARATION STANDARD WAS EXCEEDED BY APPROX 2000 FT.
Narrative: THIS OP INVOLVED A B737 DEP AND THE ARR OF A DC10 (ACR Y) ON THE SAME RWY. THE MINIMUM SEPARATION REQUIREMENT IS 6000 FT LONGITUDINAL SEPARATION AND AIRBORNE ON THE DEPARTING ACFT BEFORE THE ARRIVING ACFT CROSSES THE LNDG THRESHOLD. IN THIS CASE THE DEP WAS 8000 FT AND AIRBORNE. AFTER TALKING TO THE PLT ON THE PHONE IT WAS CLR HE FELT THE OP WAS DANGEROUS. PHX HAS THE BUSIEST TWO RWY OP IN THE COUNTRY. BOTH RWYS ARE USED FOR ARRS AND DEPS. THIS OP DESCRIBED, OCCURS SEVERAL TIMES A DAY WITHOUT COMPLAINT FROM THE LCL PLTS. THE COMPLAINTS OCCUR FROM PLTS THAT DO NOT FREQUENT PHX VERY OFTEN. OVER THE YRS I HAVE FIELDED SEVERAL CALLS SUCH AS THIS AND THE PLT RESPONSE IS ALWAYS THE SAME. (THE OP IS DANGEROUS). UNLESS THE RULES CHANGE, THE INDUSTRY NEEDS TO DO A BETTER JOB OF TEACHING THESE SEPARATION REQUIREMENTS. I AGREE IT WOULD BE SAFER TO HAVE ARR RWYS AND DEP RWYS, BUT THIS IS NOT PRACTICAL, AT LEAST NOT AT PHOENIX.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.