Flight crew crosses fuelr intersection below 8000 ft on ILS runway 25L approach at lax.

Attributes
ACN	346725
Time
Date	199608
Day	Sat
Local Time Of Day	1201 To 1800
Place
Locale Reference	airport : lax
State Reference	CA
Altitude	msl bound lower : 7700 msl bound upper : 8000
Environment
Flight Conditions	VMC
Light	Daylight
Aircraft 1
Controlling Facilities	tracon : lax
Operator	common carrier : air carrier
Make Model Name	B757-200
Operating Under FAR Part	Part 121
Navigation In Use	Other Other
Flight Phase	descent other
Route In Use	arrival other
Flight Plan	IFR
Person 1
Affiliation	company : air carrier
Function	flight crew : captain oversight : pic
Qualification	pilot : atp
ASRS Report	346725
Person 2
Affiliation	company : air carrier
Function	flight crew : first officer
Qualification	pilot : instrument pilot : commercial
ASRS Report	346726
Events
Anomaly	altitude deviation : crossing restriction not met non adherence : published procedure non adherence : clearance
Independent Detector	atc equipment other atc equipment : unspecified other controllera
Resolutory Action	none taken : insufficient time none taken : detected after the fact
Consequence	Other
Supplementary
Primary Problem	Flight Crew Human Performance
Air Traffic Incident	Pilot Deviation
Situations
Airport	procedure or policy : unspecified

Narrative:

Time XX50Z. ATC frequency 124.3. ATC facility socal approach. Location fuelr intersection. Quite possible that flight xx on aug/xx/96 crossed fuelr intersection on approach to lax below the 8000 ft restr. Callback conversation with reporter revealed the following information: reporter was not aware of crossing altitude restr still being applicable when cleared for an ILS. He was asked the following question, 'should ATC give clearance for an ILS but add the phrase, 'comply with all altitude restrs,' would that make a difference in planning and executing the ILS approach?' he was emphatic that such a statement would make a great deal of difference by calling attention to the fact that restrs are still in force. Reporter also felt that for many yrs, it has been impressed upon pilots during training, that when cleared for an ILS approach, it cancels any restrs unless restrs are restated. He now knows better. He now plans carefully during the approach to comply with all altitude restrs by using all cockpit instruments, even the standby instruments. Supplemental information from acn 346726: crossed fuelr below required crossing altitude.

Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: FLC CROSSES FUELR INTXN BELOW 8000 FT ON ILS RWY 25L APCH AT LAX.

Narrative: TIME XX50Z. ATC FREQ 124.3. ATC FACILITY SOCAL APCH. LOCATION FUELR INTXN. QUITE POSSIBLE THAT FLT XX ON AUG/XX/96 CROSSED FUELR INTXN ON APCH TO LAX BELOW THE 8000 FT RESTR. CALLBACK CONVERSATION WITH RPTR REVEALED THE FOLLOWING INFO: RPTR WAS NOT AWARE OF XING ALT RESTR STILL BEING APPLICABLE WHEN CLRED FOR AN ILS. HE WAS ASKED THE FOLLOWING QUESTION, 'SHOULD ATC GIVE CLRNC FOR AN ILS BUT ADD THE PHRASE, 'COMPLY WITH ALL ALT RESTRS,' WOULD THAT MAKE A DIFFERENCE IN PLANNING AND EXECUTING THE ILS APCH?' HE WAS EMPHATIC THAT SUCH A STATEMENT WOULD MAKE A GREAT DEAL OF DIFFERENCE BY CALLING ATTN TO THE FACT THAT RESTRS ARE STILL IN FORCE. RPTR ALSO FELT THAT FOR MANY YRS, IT HAS BEEN IMPRESSED UPON PLTS DURING TRAINING, THAT WHEN CLRED FOR AN ILS APCH, IT CANCELS ANY RESTRS UNLESS RESTRS ARE RESTATED. HE NOW KNOWS BETTER. HE NOW PLANS CAREFULLY DURING THE APCH TO COMPLY WITH ALL ALT RESTRS BY USING ALL COCKPIT INSTS, EVEN THE STANDBY INSTS. SUPPLEMENTAL INFO FROM ACN 346726: CROSSED FUELR BELOW REQUIRED XING ALT.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.