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37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
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An MD88 captain was cleared to follow a B767 on a visual approach to runway 26L and maintain 180 KTS until cegro. MD88 reduced speed due to the B767 slowing drastically after it passed the LOM. Approach controller broke the MD88 off the approach and revectored for an ILS. MD88 captain unhappy with ATC.
| Attributes | |
| ACN | 354640 |
| Time | |
| Date | 199611 |
| Day | Sun |
| Local Time Of Day | 0601 To 1200 |
| Place | |
| Locale Reference | airport : atl |
| State Reference | GA |
| Altitude | msl bound lower : 3000 msl bound upper : 3000 |
| Environment | |
| Flight Conditions | VMC |
| Light | Daylight |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Controlling Facilities | tracon : atl |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | MD-88 |
| Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
| Navigation In Use | Other Other |
| Flight Phase | descent : approach landing : go around |
| Route In Use | approach : visual enroute : on vectors |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Aircraft 2 | |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | B767 Undifferentiated or Other Model |
| Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
| Navigation In Use | Other Other |
| Flight Phase | descent : approach |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Person 1 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
| Qualification | pilot : flight engineer pilot : atp |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 180 flight time total : 9400 flight time type : 380 |
| ASRS Report | 354640 |
| Person 2 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : first officer |
| Qualification | pilot : commercial pilot : instrument |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | non adherence : clearance non adherence : published procedure |
| Independent Detector | other controllera |
| Resolutory Action | controller : issued new clearance other |
| Consequence | Other |
| Miss Distance | horizontal : 25000 |
| Supplementary | |
| Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
| Air Traffic Incident | other |
Narrative:
ATC tried to push a visual approach following B767 (5.5 NM ahead) into atl. We offered 'field in sight' and were cleared for visual maintain 180 KTS to cegro. Speed was reduced to 170 KTS. After B767 passed marker, it apparently slowed drastically. Approach asked if we could provide visual separation, we said no. Approach announced separation lost, turn to 360 degrees, climb to 4000 ft. We then were vectored for an unrequested and uneventful ILS. If ATC cannot maintain separation (appropriately behind a heavy in calm winds) with all its equipment, how are we supposed to maintain a 5 NM separation visually? This follow the leader to the airport, ATC shortened, has resulted in the sloppiest handling I've seen. You are frequently asked to follow an aircraft 1000-1500 ft above or below you, at 3 NM spacing while you're in a turn 10-15 NM out. Whoever is inducing this situation (ATC or airlines) by trying to increase capacity must be asked if it is worth a potentially fatal midair or wake turbulence encounter?
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: AN MD88 CAPT WAS CLRED TO FOLLOW A B767 ON A VISUAL APCH TO RWY 26L AND MAINTAIN 180 KTS UNTIL CEGRO. MD88 REDUCED SPD DUE TO THE B767 SLOWING DRASTICALLY AFTER IT PASSED THE LOM. APCH CTLR BROKE THE MD88 OFF THE APCH AND REVECTORED FOR AN ILS. MD88 CAPT UNHAPPY WITH ATC.
Narrative: ATC TRIED TO PUSH A VISUAL APCH FOLLOWING B767 (5.5 NM AHEAD) INTO ATL. WE OFFERED 'FIELD IN SIGHT' AND WERE CLRED FOR VISUAL MAINTAIN 180 KTS TO CEGRO. SPD WAS REDUCED TO 170 KTS. AFTER B767 PASSED MARKER, IT APPARENTLY SLOWED DRASTICALLY. APCH ASKED IF WE COULD PROVIDE VISUAL SEPARATION, WE SAID NO. APCH ANNOUNCED SEPARATION LOST, TURN TO 360 DEGS, CLB TO 4000 FT. WE THEN WERE VECTORED FOR AN UNREQUESTED AND UNEVENTFUL ILS. IF ATC CANNOT MAINTAIN SEPARATION (APPROPRIATELY BEHIND A HVY IN CALM WINDS) WITH ALL ITS EQUIP, HOW ARE WE SUPPOSED TO MAINTAIN A 5 NM SEPARATION VISUALLY? THIS FOLLOW THE LEADER TO THE ARPT, ATC SHORTENED, HAS RESULTED IN THE SLOPPIEST HANDLING I'VE SEEN. YOU ARE FREQUENTLY ASKED TO FOLLOW AN ACFT 1000-1500 FT ABOVE OR BELOW YOU, AT 3 NM SPACING WHILE YOU'RE IN A TURN 10-15 NM OUT. WHOEVER IS INDUCING THIS SIT (ATC OR AIRLINES) BY TRYING TO INCREASE CAPACITY MUST BE ASKED IF IT IS WORTH A POTENTIALLY FATAL MIDAIR OR WAKE TURB ENCOUNTER?
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.