37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 374794 |
Time | |
Date | 199707 |
Day | Mon |
Local Time Of Day | 1801 To 2400 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : mad |
State Reference | FO |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 5000 msl bound upper : 5000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | Mixed |
Light | Night |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : mad tower : cos |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Navigation In Use | Other |
Flight Phase | climbout : intermediate altitude |
Route In Use | departure sid : sid |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 240 flight time total : 9000 flight time type : 5000 |
ASRS Report | 374794 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : instrument pilot : commercial |
Events | |
Anomaly | non adherence : clearance non adherence : published procedure other anomaly other other spatial deviation |
Independent Detector | atc equipment other atc equipment : unspecified other controllera |
Resolutory Action | controller : issued new clearance other |
Consequence | Other |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | Chart Or Publication |
Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation |
Narrative:
After takeoff runway 15 and cleared small aircraft 1B departure, we turned to intercept cnr 169 degree radial as depicted (see plate 10- 3K). Immediately after turn, departure control inquired as to what we were doing. I informed him that we were cleared small aircraft 1B and read this back to clearance delivery. He said we were not flying the SID properly and then vectored us to small aircraft NDB. While in cruise, I closely examined plate 10-3K and noted that one must refer to another plate 10-3 (initial climb procedures) to complete the departure. Factors that contributed were heavy thunderstorms in the area, unfamiliarity with the area, language problems and misunderstanding of established procedures that require one to follow 2 separate plates simultaneously. Callback conversation with reporter revealed the following information: reporter was confused and completely unaware of how the departure was designed. He really didn't see that the one departure plate relies on the beginning of the departure on another plate. There really is no easily identifiable way to know that they are associated and built from one to another. The controller called the flight crew and told them there was no such departure as they were flying. The controller gave them a vector to keep all things legal. At cruise altitude the reporter went through all approach pages to see what they might have done differently and then discovered the departure is predicated on a common initial departure, but that departure was not issued to him. Reporter feels that a better way of identing the sequence of 2 cleared departures would be helpful to all who use them.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: A DC8-73CF DEPARTING MADRID, SPAIN, HAS DIFFICULTY IDENTING THE PROPER SID SEQUENCE AND HAS A TRACK OR HDG DEV. CHARTS ARE NOT EASILY IDENTIFIABLE OF WHAT THEIR SEQUENCE IS.
Narrative: AFTER TKOF RWY 15 AND CLRED SMA 1B DEP, WE TURNED TO INTERCEPT CNR 169 DEG RADIAL AS DEPICTED (SEE PLATE 10- 3K). IMMEDIATELY AFTER TURN, DEP CTL INQUIRED AS TO WHAT WE WERE DOING. I INFORMED HIM THAT WE WERE CLRED SMA 1B AND READ THIS BACK TO CLRNC DELIVERY. HE SAID WE WERE NOT FLYING THE SID PROPERLY AND THEN VECTORED US TO SMA NDB. WHILE IN CRUISE, I CLOSELY EXAMINED PLATE 10-3K AND NOTED THAT ONE MUST REFER TO ANOTHER PLATE 10-3 (INITIAL CLB PROCS) TO COMPLETE THE DEP. FACTORS THAT CONTRIBUTED WERE HVY TSTMS IN THE AREA, UNFAMILIARITY WITH THE AREA, LANGUAGE PROBS AND MISUNDERSTANDING OF ESTABLISHED PROCS THAT REQUIRE ONE TO FOLLOW 2 SEPARATE PLATES SIMULTANEOUSLY. CALLBACK CONVERSATION WITH RPTR REVEALED THE FOLLOWING INFO: RPTR WAS CONFUSED AND COMPLETELY UNAWARE OF HOW THE DEP WAS DESIGNED. HE REALLY DIDN'T SEE THAT THE ONE DEP PLATE RELIES ON THE BEGINNING OF THE DEP ON ANOTHER PLATE. THERE REALLY IS NO EASILY IDENTIFIABLE WAY TO KNOW THAT THEY ARE ASSOCIATED AND BUILT FROM ONE TO ANOTHER. THE CTLR CALLED THE FLC AND TOLD THEM THERE WAS NO SUCH DEP AS THEY WERE FLYING. THE CTLR GAVE THEM A VECTOR TO KEEP ALL THINGS LEGAL. AT CRUISE ALT THE RPTR WENT THROUGH ALL APCH PAGES TO SEE WHAT THEY MIGHT HAVE DONE DIFFERENTLY AND THEN DISCOVERED THE DEP IS PREDICATED ON A COMMON INITIAL DEP, BUT THAT DEP WAS NOT ISSUED TO HIM. RPTR FEELS THAT A BETTER WAY OF IDENTING THE SEQUENCE OF 2 CLRED DEPS WOULD BE HELPFUL TO ALL WHO USE THEM.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.