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37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
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A commuter DH8 responds to a TCASII evasive action climb from 3 VFR F16's 500 ft below it after departing a restr training area.
| Attributes | |
| ACN | 375024 |
| Time | |
| Date | 199707 |
| Day | Thu |
| Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
| Place | |
| Locale Reference | atc facility : glr |
| State Reference | MI |
| Altitude | msl bound lower : 10500 msl bound upper : 11000 |
| Environment | |
| Flight Conditions | VMC |
| Light | Daylight |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Controlling Facilities | artcc : zmp |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | Dash 8 Series Undifferentiated or Other Model |
| Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
| Flight Phase | cruise other |
| Route In Use | enroute airway : zmp |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Aircraft 2 | |
| Operator | other |
| Make Model Name | Fighting Falcon F16 |
| Operating Under FAR Part | other : other |
| Flight Phase | climbout : intermediate altitude cruise other |
| Route In Use | approach : visual |
| Flight Plan | VFR |
| Person 1 | |
| Affiliation | government : faa |
| Function | controller : radar |
| Qualification | controller : radar |
| Experience | controller radar : 10 |
| ASRS Report | 375024 |
| Person 2 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
| Qualification | pilot : atp |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | conflict : airborne less severe other anomaly other |
| Independent Detector | aircraft equipment other aircraft equipment : unspecified |
| Resolutory Action | flight crew : took evasive action |
| Consequence | Other |
| Miss Distance | horizontal : 0 vertical : 500 |
| Supplementary | |
| Air Traffic Incident | other |
Narrative:
The DH8 was sbound on V297 at 11000 ft. A flight of 3 F16's departed R-4201A sebound VFR looking to pick up their IFR clearance to mtc. Before I could establish the position of the F16's, they were 500 ft below the DH8. I am sure that the rapid rate of climb below the DH8 set off his TCASII. The pilot of the DH8 told me of the TCASII and he was climbing. The F16's had the DH8 in sight. This situation happens almost every day along V297 between pln and mbs. This airway is squeezed between a number of military airspaces, restr areas to the west, MOA's and atca's to the east. This leaves a very small area for the airway and the departure point of the restr areas. I believe that the military should depart to the south of R-4201A&B and not to the east or southeast as to conflict with V297. In most cases, the military aircraft provide their own VFR separation using the onboard radar. The TCASII slower moving aircraft can only guess what to do. Callback conversation with reporter revealed the following information: reporter indicated the F16's had climbed and were level at 10500 ft and had the DH8 in sight when the TCASII action was taken by the DH8. In discussion with the analyst, the reporter indicated this situation could have occurred with any other VFR aircraft. Reporter is unaware of any discussion to have the military depart the restr area to the east or southeast. Reporter stated that there is a push to get the military to make real time use of the areas rather than blocking them for certain number of hours without any activity. Reporter stated they and adjoining facilities use the V297 airway restr which places traffic on the airway when the restr areas are active. Reporter indicated this eliminates the need of the reporter's sector to vector the traffic around the various military activity areas as detailed in the report.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: A COMMUTER DH8 RESPONDS TO A TCASII EVASIVE ACTION CLB FROM 3 VFR F16'S 500 FT BELOW IT AFTER DEPARTING A RESTR TRAINING AREA.
Narrative: THE DH8 WAS SBOUND ON V297 AT 11000 FT. A FLT OF 3 F16'S DEPARTED R-4201A SEBOUND VFR LOOKING TO PICK UP THEIR IFR CLRNC TO MTC. BEFORE I COULD ESTABLISH THE POS OF THE F16'S, THEY WERE 500 FT BELOW THE DH8. I AM SURE THAT THE RAPID RATE OF CLB BELOW THE DH8 SET OFF HIS TCASII. THE PLT OF THE DH8 TOLD ME OF THE TCASII AND HE WAS CLBING. THE F16'S HAD THE DH8 IN SIGHT. THIS SIT HAPPENS ALMOST EVERY DAY ALONG V297 BTWN PLN AND MBS. THIS AIRWAY IS SQUEEZED BTWN A NUMBER OF MIL AIRSPACES, RESTR AREAS TO THE W, MOA'S AND ATCA'S TO THE E. THIS LEAVES A VERY SMALL AREA FOR THE AIRWAY AND THE DEP POINT OF THE RESTR AREAS. I BELIEVE THAT THE MIL SHOULD DEPART TO THE S OF R-4201A&B AND NOT TO THE E OR SE AS TO CONFLICT WITH V297. IN MOST CASES, THE MIL ACFT PROVIDE THEIR OWN VFR SEPARATION USING THE ONBOARD RADAR. THE TCASII SLOWER MOVING ACFT CAN ONLY GUESS WHAT TO DO. CALLBACK CONVERSATION WITH RPTR REVEALED THE FOLLOWING INFO: RPTR INDICATED THE F16'S HAD CLBED AND WERE LEVEL AT 10500 FT AND HAD THE DH8 IN SIGHT WHEN THE TCASII ACTION WAS TAKEN BY THE DH8. IN DISCUSSION WITH THE ANALYST, THE RPTR INDICATED THIS SIT COULD HAVE OCCURRED WITH ANY OTHER VFR ACFT. RPTR IS UNAWARE OF ANY DISCUSSION TO HAVE THE MIL DEPART THE RESTR AREA TO THE E OR SE. RPTR STATED THAT THERE IS A PUSH TO GET THE MIL TO MAKE REAL TIME USE OF THE AREAS RATHER THAN BLOCKING THEM FOR CERTAIN NUMBER OF HRS WITHOUT ANY ACTIVITY. RPTR STATED THEY AND ADJOINING FACILITIES USE THE V297 AIRWAY RESTR WHICH PLACES TFC ON THE AIRWAY WHEN THE RESTR AREAS ARE ACTIVE. RPTR INDICATED THIS ELIMINATES THE NEED OF THE RPTR'S SECTOR TO VECTOR THE TFC AROUND THE VARIOUS MIL ACTIVITY AREAS AS DETAILED IN THE RPT.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.