37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 376724 |
Time | |
Date | 199708 |
Day | Sat |
Local Time Of Day | 0601 To 1200 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | atc facility : zny |
State Reference | NY |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 35000 msl bound upper : 39000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | Mixed |
Light | Dusk |
Aircraft 1 | |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Commercial Fixed Wing |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Navigation In Use | Other Other |
Flight Phase | climbout : intermediate altitude cruise other |
Route In Use | enroute : other oceanic enroute : atlantic enroute airway : zny |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 100 flight time total : 10000 flight time type : 4000 |
ASRS Report | 376724 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Events | |
Anomaly | inflight encounter : weather non adherence : clearance non adherence : far other anomaly other other spatial deviation |
Independent Detector | other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | none taken : anomaly accepted |
Consequence | other |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | Weather |
Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation other |
Narrative:
The deviations took place throughout the flts and times depicted above, during cruise flight. The captain I was flying with 'insisted' on deviating off course as much as 36 NM off assigned route (over atlantic rtes -- north to south, south to north: jfk to stt and stt to jfk, jfk to ccs and ccs to jfk) when thunderstorm buildups were along our route without contacting any controling agency. The rtes are in the atlantic area where we are in radio contact for position reporting (usually HF) and in the area of appearance where 'we all think' we are not in radar coverage. Wrong! I happen to know and conveyed to the captain that they (ATC) still could see us even though we were reporting position on HF. I advised the captain that we should at least call ATC of our deviations. The captain 'insisted' and 'ordered' me to deviate off course for WX buildups despite my own insistence not to until we contacted ATC. The WX was not that threatening, but the captain insisted anyway. No in-flight conflict was created. I don't have a problem in circumventing WX and known turbulent conditions, but some attempt must be made to communicate with ATC or other aircraft to advise them of our conditions and intentions. I cannot tolerate this type of mentality to just fly where we want with total disregard for airspace rules, lack of concern for the safety of passenger and other aircraft. What are we first officer's to do when we fly with a captain that feels he/she is above reproach to the regulations.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: ACR FO RPT REGARDING THE PIC'S PROPENSITY FOR DEV AROUND TSTM ACTIVITY WITHOUT OBTAINING ATC APPROVAL. THESE OPS OCCURRED OVER SEVERAL DAYS, ON THE OVERWATER RTES OFF THE EAST COAST. RPTR APPEARS TO BE NOTABLY DISTURBED AND FRUSTRATED.
Narrative: THE DEVS TOOK PLACE THROUGHOUT THE FLTS AND TIMES DEPICTED ABOVE, DURING CRUISE FLT. THE CAPT I WAS FLYING WITH 'INSISTED' ON DEVIATING OFF COURSE AS MUCH AS 36 NM OFF ASSIGNED RTE (OVER ATLANTIC RTES -- N TO S, S TO N: JFK TO STT AND STT TO JFK, JFK TO CCS AND CCS TO JFK) WHEN TSTM BUILDUPS WERE ALONG OUR RTE WITHOUT CONTACTING ANY CTLING AGENCY. THE RTES ARE IN THE ATLANTIC AREA WHERE WE ARE IN RADIO CONTACT FOR POS RPTING (USUALLY HF) AND IN THE AREA OF APPEARANCE WHERE 'WE ALL THINK' WE ARE NOT IN RADAR COVERAGE. WRONG! I HAPPEN TO KNOW AND CONVEYED TO THE CAPT THAT THEY (ATC) STILL COULD SEE US EVEN THOUGH WE WERE RPTING POS ON HF. I ADVISED THE CAPT THAT WE SHOULD AT LEAST CALL ATC OF OUR DEVS. THE CAPT 'INSISTED' AND 'ORDERED' ME TO DEVIATE OFF COURSE FOR WX BUILDUPS DESPITE MY OWN INSISTENCE NOT TO UNTIL WE CONTACTED ATC. THE WX WAS NOT THAT THREATENING, BUT THE CAPT INSISTED ANYWAY. NO INFLT CONFLICT WAS CREATED. I DON'T HAVE A PROB IN CIRCUMVENTING WX AND KNOWN TURBULENT CONDITIONS, BUT SOME ATTEMPT MUST BE MADE TO COMMUNICATE WITH ATC OR OTHER ACFT TO ADVISE THEM OF OUR CONDITIONS AND INTENTIONS. I CANNOT TOLERATE THIS TYPE OF MENTALITY TO JUST FLY WHERE WE WANT WITH TOTAL DISREGARD FOR AIRSPACE RULES, LACK OF CONCERN FOR THE SAFETY OF PAX AND OTHER ACFT. WHAT ARE WE FO'S TO DO WHEN WE FLY WITH A CAPT THAT FEELS HE/SHE IS ABOVE REPROACH TO THE REGS.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.