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|
Attributes | |
ACN | 381598 |
Time | |
Date | 199710 |
Day | Wed |
Local Time Of Day | 0601 To 1200 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : dtw |
State Reference | MI |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 2000 msl bound upper : 2000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : dtw tower : dtw |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | A300 |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Navigation In Use | Other |
Flight Phase | climbout : intermediate altitude |
Route In Use | departure other departure sid : sid enroute : on vectors |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Aircraft 2 | |
Make Model Name | Bonanza 33 |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 91 |
Flight Phase | cruise other |
Route In Use | enroute : on vectors |
Flight Plan | VFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : atp pilot : cfi pilot : flight engineer |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 120 flight time total : 12000 flight time type : 1000 |
ASRS Report | 381598 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp pilot : cfi |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 100 flight time total : 10000 flight time type : 1100 |
ASRS Report | 381812 |
Events | |
Anomaly | conflict : airborne less severe non adherence : required legal separation non adherence : published procedure non adherence : far |
Independent Detector | other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | none taken : anomaly accepted |
Consequence | Other |
Miss Distance | horizontal : 1500 vertical : 500 |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | Operational Error other |
Situations | |
ATC Facility | procedure or policy : unspecified |
Narrative:
We had just departed dtw from runway 3C, were handed off to departure control, and assigned a heading of 050 degrees. On this heading, climbing through approximately 1500-2000 ft MSL, we saw a light single engine airplane (idented by the captain as a beech bonanza) at our 12 O'clock, passing right to left. We estimate his vertical separation as 500 ft at that moment (we were climbing to 10000 ft MSL on the published geneva 2 SID) and distance 1500-2500 ft. We passed behind the small plane without taking evasive action. Captain asked departure control about the craft. We were told that the tower was 'talking to him' (or he was 'talking to the tower') and that it was at 2500 ft MSL. We did not question the departure controller any further. Evidently, the small plane was transiting the tower's airspace VFR. That he was transiting across the departure path is what disturbs me. Dtw was using 2 parallel runways for departure, with flts taking off one after the other at a very busy time of morning. Had our rate of climb, speed, etc, been slightly different, a collision would have been very likely. My opinion: during a busy time of departures, no VFR aircraft should be allowed to transit such airspace, regardless of WX conditions, particularly across departure paths. The tower personnel have no way of knowing what our rate of climb may be, and thus are not able to predict our climb path with any precision. Note that the geneva 2 SID includes a restr to be at least 5000 ft MSL at 10 mi, and most pilots will climb so as to leave no doubt about making the restr. Supplemental information from acn 381812: had we been making a maximum power takeoff, we would have been even closer. No evasive action was taken. My concern is that the tower controllers underestimate the climb capabilities of the new, long range twins at light weights.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: AN A300 CARGO FLT HAS A POTENTIAL CONFLICT WITH A BONANZA XING HIS DEP RTE OUT OF DTW ON AN ASSIGNED HDG CLBING OUT OF 2000 FT. TFC WAS NOT CALLED, WITH THE SMA ON TWR FREQ AND THE A300 ON DEP CTL. RPTRS WERE CONCERNED WITH ATC'S METHOD OF TFC HANDLING.
Narrative: WE HAD JUST DEPARTED DTW FROM RWY 3C, WERE HANDED OFF TO DEP CTL, AND ASSIGNED A HDG OF 050 DEGS. ON THIS HDG, CLBING THROUGH APPROX 1500-2000 FT MSL, WE SAW A LIGHT SINGLE ENG AIRPLANE (IDENTED BY THE CAPT AS A BEECH BONANZA) AT OUR 12 O'CLOCK, PASSING R TO L. WE ESTIMATE HIS VERT SEPARATION AS 500 FT AT THAT MOMENT (WE WERE CLBING TO 10000 FT MSL ON THE PUBLISHED GENEVA 2 SID) AND DISTANCE 1500-2500 FT. WE PASSED BEHIND THE SMALL PLANE WITHOUT TAKING EVASIVE ACTION. CAPT ASKED DEP CTL ABOUT THE CRAFT. WE WERE TOLD THAT THE TWR WAS 'TALKING TO HIM' (OR HE WAS 'TALKING TO THE TWR') AND THAT IT WAS AT 2500 FT MSL. WE DID NOT QUESTION THE DEP CTLR ANY FURTHER. EVIDENTLY, THE SMALL PLANE WAS TRANSITING THE TWR'S AIRSPACE VFR. THAT HE WAS TRANSITING ACROSS THE DEP PATH IS WHAT DISTURBS ME. DTW WAS USING 2 PARALLEL RWYS FOR DEP, WITH FLTS TAKING OFF ONE AFTER THE OTHER AT A VERY BUSY TIME OF MORNING. HAD OUR RATE OF CLB, SPD, ETC, BEEN SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT, A COLLISION WOULD HAVE BEEN VERY LIKELY. MY OPINION: DURING A BUSY TIME OF DEPS, NO VFR ACFT SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO TRANSIT SUCH AIRSPACE, REGARDLESS OF WX CONDITIONS, PARTICULARLY ACROSS DEP PATHS. THE TWR PERSONNEL HAVE NO WAY OF KNOWING WHAT OUR RATE OF CLB MAY BE, AND THUS ARE NOT ABLE TO PREDICT OUR CLB PATH WITH ANY PRECISION. NOTE THAT THE GENEVA 2 SID INCLUDES A RESTR TO BE AT LEAST 5000 FT MSL AT 10 MI, AND MOST PLTS WILL CLB SO AS TO LEAVE NO DOUBT ABOUT MAKING THE RESTR. SUPPLEMENTAL INFO FROM ACN 381812: HAD WE BEEN MAKING A MAX PWR TKOF, WE WOULD HAVE BEEN EVEN CLOSER. NO EVASIVE ACTION WAS TAKEN. MY CONCERN IS THAT THE TWR CTLRS UNDERESTIMATE THE CLB CAPABILITIES OF THE NEW, LONG RANGE TWINS AT LIGHT WTS.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.