A B727-100 was parked on the gate and using ground power with the engines running when the ground po...

Attributes
ACN	384042
Time
Date	199710
Day	Mon
Local Time Of Day	1801 To 2400
Place
Locale Reference	airport : ord
State Reference	IL
Altitude	agl bound lower : 0 agl bound upper : 0
Environment
Flight Conditions	IMC
Light	Night
Aircraft 1
Operator	common carrier : air carrier
Make Model Name	B727-100
Operating Under FAR Part	Part 121
Navigation In Use	Other
Flight Phase	ground : parked ground : preflight
Flight Plan	IFR
Person 1
Affiliation	company : air carrier
Function	flight crew : captain oversight : pic
Qualification	pilot : atp
Experience	flight time last 90 days : 30 flight time total : 4100 flight time type : 1200
ASRS Report	384042
Person 2
Affiliation	company : air carrier
Function	flight crew : second officer
Qualification	pilot : flight engineer pilot : private pilot : atp
Experience	flight time last 90 days : 50 flight time total : 3200 flight time type : 17
ASRS Report	384394
Events
Anomaly	aircraft equipment problem : critical other anomaly other
Independent Detector	other flight crewa other other : unspecified cockpit
Resolutory Action	none taken : unable
Consequence	Other
Supplementary
Primary Problem	Aircraft
Air Traffic Incident	other

Narrative:

Aircraft APU inoperative. Started all 3 engines in blocks using external power and air. After starting engines, maintenance asked if they could remove air and electrics. I replied yes and turned to tell so to switch to ship's power. The mechanic was quicker. There was a momentary interruption of electrical power until the so got us onto ship's power. We then noticed that #2 engine had flamed out. We immediately selected the start lever to cut-off. We advised maintenance, and after the engine spooled down we motored it to clear any residual fuel and made a normal start. The remainder of the flight was uneventful. No write-up was made. Had we switched to ship's power before the mechanic pulled electrics the engine probably would not have flamed out. However, the design is flawed if a momentary loss of electrics causes an engine to flame out. This aircraft has been modified with rolls- royce tay engines and we have experienced several similar incidents. Callback conversation with reporter revealed the following information: the reporter stated this flameout situation has happened several times and the cause is known. The reporter said the engine driven fuel pump will not suck fuel from the tank and when the tank boost pumps come on a fuel surge occurs that the fuel control cannot process. The reporter stated several fixes have been tried but none successful. The reporter said they get around this by using procedures like having the busses pwred with tank pumps running at engine start and then switching the engine generators on before removing the ground power. The reporter advised this aircraft is pwred by the rolls-royce tay engines and the stc holder has tried fuel pressure regulators and accumulators with no success. The reporter stated this design is flawed. Callback conversation with reporter acn 384394 revealed the following information: reporter stated the following conditions existed at the time the engine flamed out: the engines were running with ground power pwring all busses through the bus tie breakers and the aircraft and tank boost pumps feeding the engines. The reporter said the mechanic pulled the ground power before the engine generators were switched onto the individual busses. The reporter stated when the engine busses were pwred and the boost pumps operated the engine flamed out. The reporter related that this power interruption and engine flameout situation has occurred several times with this aircraft confign.

Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: A B727-100 WAS PARKED ON THE GATE AND USING GND PWR WITH THE ENGS RUNNING WHEN THE GND PWR WAS DISCONNECTED AND BEFORE ENG BUSSES WERE PWRING THE ACFT THE #2 ENG FLAMED OUT.

Narrative: ACFT APU INOP. STARTED ALL 3 ENGS IN BLOCKS USING EXTERNAL PWR AND AIR. AFTER STARTING ENGS, MAINT ASKED IF THEY COULD REMOVE AIR AND ELECTRICS. I REPLIED YES AND TURNED TO TELL SO TO SWITCH TO SHIP'S PWR. THE MECH WAS QUICKER. THERE WAS A MOMENTARY INTERRUPTION OF ELECTRICAL PWR UNTIL THE SO GOT US ONTO SHIP'S PWR. WE THEN NOTICED THAT #2 ENG HAD FLAMED OUT. WE IMMEDIATELY SELECTED THE START LEVER TO CUT-OFF. WE ADVISED MAINT, AND AFTER THE ENG SPOOLED DOWN WE MOTORED IT TO CLR ANY RESIDUAL FUEL AND MADE A NORMAL START. THE REMAINDER OF THE FLT WAS UNEVENTFUL. NO WRITE-UP WAS MADE. HAD WE SWITCHED TO SHIP'S PWR BEFORE THE MECH PULLED ELECTRICS THE ENG PROBABLY WOULD NOT HAVE FLAMED OUT. HOWEVER, THE DESIGN IS FLAWED IF A MOMENTARY LOSS OF ELECTRICS CAUSES AN ENG TO FLAME OUT. THIS ACFT HAS BEEN MODIFIED WITH ROLLS- ROYCE TAY ENGS AND WE HAVE EXPERIENCED SEVERAL SIMILAR INCIDENTS. CALLBACK CONVERSATION WITH RPTR REVEALED THE FOLLOWING INFO: THE RPTR STATED THIS FLAMEOUT SIT HAS HAPPENED SEVERAL TIMES AND THE CAUSE IS KNOWN. THE RPTR SAID THE ENG DRIVEN FUEL PUMP WILL NOT SUCK FUEL FROM THE TANK AND WHEN THE TANK BOOST PUMPS COME ON A FUEL SURGE OCCURS THAT THE FUEL CTL CANNOT PROCESS. THE RPTR STATED SEVERAL FIXES HAVE BEEN TRIED BUT NONE SUCCESSFUL. THE RPTR SAID THEY GET AROUND THIS BY USING PROCS LIKE HAVING THE BUSSES PWRED WITH TANK PUMPS RUNNING AT ENG START AND THEN SWITCHING THE ENG GENERATORS ON BEFORE REMOVING THE GND PWR. THE RPTR ADVISED THIS ACFT IS PWRED BY THE ROLLS-ROYCE TAY ENGS AND THE STC HOLDER HAS TRIED FUEL PRESSURE REGULATORS AND ACCUMULATORS WITH NO SUCCESS. THE RPTR STATED THIS DESIGN IS FLAWED. CALLBACK CONVERSATION WITH RPTR ACN 384394 REVEALED THE FOLLOWING INFO: RPTR STATED THE FOLLOWING CONDITIONS EXISTED AT THE TIME THE ENG FLAMED OUT: THE ENGS WERE RUNNING WITH GND PWR PWRING ALL BUSSES THROUGH THE BUS TIE BREAKERS AND THE ACFT AND TANK BOOST PUMPS FEEDING THE ENGS. THE RPTR SAID THE MECH PULLED THE GND PWR BEFORE THE ENG GENERATORS WERE SWITCHED ONTO THE INDIVIDUAL BUSSES. THE RPTR STATED WHEN THE ENG BUSSES WERE PWRED AND THE BOOST PUMPS OPERATED THE ENG FLAMED OUT. THE RPTR RELATED THAT THIS PWR INTERRUPTION AND ENG FLAMEOUT SIT HAS OCCURRED SEVERAL TIMES WITH THIS ACFT CONFIGN.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.

A B727-100 was parked on the gate and using ground power with the engines running when the ground power was disconnected and before engine busses were pwring the aircraft the #2 engine flamed out.