Mdt aircraft with PF, first officer on his first leg of IOE, was cleared to descend for a crossing r...

Attributes
ACN	385878
Time
Date	199711
Day	Fri
Local Time Of Day	0601 To 1200
Place
Locale Reference	atc facility : pmm
State Reference	IL
Altitude	msl bound lower : 30300 msl bound upper : 31000
Environment
Flight Conditions	VMC
Light	Daylight
Aircraft 1
Controlling Facilities	artcc : zau
Operator	common carrier : air carrier
Make Model Name	B737 Undifferentiated or Other Model
Operating Under FAR Part	Part 121
Navigation In Use	Other Other
Flight Phase	cruise other descent other
Route In Use	enroute airway : zau
Flight Plan	IFR
Person 1
Affiliation	company : air carrier
Function	flight crew : captain oversight : pic
Qualification	pilot : atp pilot : flight engineer pilot : commercial
Experience	flight time last 90 days : 150 flight time total : 8000 flight time type : 440
ASRS Report	385878
Person 2
Affiliation	company : air carrier
Function	flight crew : first officer
Qualification	pilot : instrument pilot : commercial pilot : atp
Experience	flight time last 90 days : 110 flight time total : 7200
ASRS Report	385640
Events
Anomaly	altitude deviation : crossing restriction not met altitude deviation : overshoot non adherence : clearance
Independent Detector	other flight crewa
Resolutory Action	flight crew : returned to intended course or assigned course
Consequence	Other
Supplementary
Primary Problem	Flight Crew Human Performance
Air Traffic Incident	Pilot Deviation

Narrative:

This flight happened to be an IOE flight (first trip -- first leg) in this aircraft for this first officer (PF). At approximately 90 NM east of pmm VOR, on J547, ZOB issued a clearance for us to cross 65 NM east of pmm at FL310. We were cruising at FL390, with a tailwind of 35 KTS, at .80 mach (approximately ground speed of 485 KTS). The first officer selected pmm for DME and began to figure out a descent. The descent was initiated at 78 DME from pmm. Maximum forward speed with full speed brake extension were required to make the crossing. In discovering that we might not make the restr I informed center we might be high. Center responded 'I gave you the clearance at least 10 mi back,' (or something very close to those words), nothing more. As we approached FL310 the first officer began to level. His unfamiliarity with the actual aircraft performance and the quickness of the events led to an altitude deviation. Lowest altitude reached was FL303 with an immediate recovery to FL310. ATC could have been a little more considerate and given us more distance to make the descent and crossing restr. Descending from FL390 to FL310 in 25 NM with a 35 KT tailwind, a new pilot to the aircraft, slow reacting FMS, autoflt system (ig), all contributed in making the crossing restr difficult to achieve. Looking back, accepting the clearance under these conditions was not in our best interest. ATC's lack of willingness to amend the clearance when informed of our status, our effort to adhere to the crossing restr, slow retraction of the speed brakes (normal system operations for this aircraft) at high speeds, and first officer's unfamiliarity with aircraft performance, all contributed to the altitude deviation.

Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: MDT ACFT WITH PF, FO ON HIS FIRST LEG OF IOE, WAS CLRED TO DSND FOR A XING RESTR. DUE TO STRONG TAILWIND AND FO INEXPERIENCE, ACFT WAS STARTED DOWN LATE AND HAD TO MAKE A MAX DSCNT RESULTING IN OVERSHOOT AT LEVELOFF.

Narrative: THIS FLT HAPPENED TO BE AN IOE FLT (FIRST TRIP -- FIRST LEG) IN THIS ACFT FOR THIS FO (PF). AT APPROX 90 NM E OF PMM VOR, ON J547, ZOB ISSUED A CLRNC FOR US TO CROSS 65 NM E OF PMM AT FL310. WE WERE CRUISING AT FL390, WITH A TAILWIND OF 35 KTS, AT .80 MACH (APPROX GND SPD OF 485 KTS). THE FO SELECTED PMM FOR DME AND BEGAN TO FIGURE OUT A DSCNT. THE DSCNT WAS INITIATED AT 78 DME FROM PMM. MAX FORWARD SPD WITH FULL SPD BRAKE EXTENSION WERE REQUIRED TO MAKE THE XING. IN DISCOVERING THAT WE MIGHT NOT MAKE THE RESTR I INFORMED CTR WE MIGHT BE HIGH. CTR RESPONDED 'I GAVE YOU THE CLRNC AT LEAST 10 MI BACK,' (OR SOMETHING VERY CLOSE TO THOSE WORDS), NOTHING MORE. AS WE APCHED FL310 THE FO BEGAN TO LEVEL. HIS UNFAMILIARITY WITH THE ACTUAL ACFT PERFORMANCE AND THE QUICKNESS OF THE EVENTS LED TO AN ALTDEV. LOWEST ALT REACHED WAS FL303 WITH AN IMMEDIATE RECOVERY TO FL310. ATC COULD HAVE BEEN A LITTLE MORE CONSIDERATE AND GIVEN US MORE DISTANCE TO MAKE THE DSCNT AND XING RESTR. DSNDING FROM FL390 TO FL310 IN 25 NM WITH A 35 KT TAILWIND, A NEW PLT TO THE ACFT, SLOW REACTING FMS, AUTOFLT SYS (IG), ALL CONTRIBUTED IN MAKING THE XING RESTR DIFFICULT TO ACHIEVE. LOOKING BACK, ACCEPTING THE CLRNC UNDER THESE CONDITIONS WAS NOT IN OUR BEST INTEREST. ATC'S LACK OF WILLINGNESS TO AMEND THE CLRNC WHEN INFORMED OF OUR STATUS, OUR EFFORT TO ADHERE TO THE XING RESTR, SLOW RETRACTION OF THE SPD BRAKES (NORMAL SYS OPS FOR THIS ACFT) AT HIGH SPDS, AND FO'S UNFAMILIARITY WITH ACFT PERFORMANCE, ALL CONTRIBUTED TO THE ALTDEV.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.

Mdt aircraft with PF, first officer on his first leg of IOE, was cleared to descend for a crossing restr. Due to strong tailwind and first officer inexperience, aircraft was started down late and had to make a maximum descent resulting in overshoot at leveloff.