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An air carrier B737 flight crew reports that an approach controller cleared them for a visual approach in non-visual conditions. The controller had not asked the flight crew if they saw the field or other visual cues beforehand. The flight crew refused the clearance.
| Attributes | |
| ACN | 386309 |
| Time | |
| Date | 199711 |
| Day | Fri |
| Local Time Of Day | 1801 To 2400 |
| Place | |
| Locale Reference | airport : dca |
| State Reference | DC |
| Altitude | msl bound lower : 3000 msl bound upper : 3000 |
| Environment | |
| Flight Conditions | Marginal |
| Light | Night |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Controlling Facilities | tracon : dca |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | B737-200 |
| Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
| Flight Phase | descent : approach |
| Route In Use | approach : visual |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Person 1 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
| Qualification | pilot : commercial pilot : atp pilot : flight engineer pilot : instrument |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 170 flight time total : 12000 flight time type : 9000 |
| ASRS Report | 386309 |
| Person 2 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : first officer |
| Qualification | pilot : atp |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 120 flight time total : 17500 flight time type : 2000 |
| ASRS Report | 386310 |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | inflight encounter : weather non adherence : published procedure other anomaly other |
| Independent Detector | other flight crewa |
| Resolutory Action | controller : issued new clearance other |
| Consequence | Other |
| Supplementary | |
| Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
| Air Traffic Incident | other |
Narrative:
Aircraft was being radar vectored to fly the mt vernon visual approach, which is a VFR maneuver. Approach cleared flight for the mt vernon approach without asking the flight if it had visual contact with the river in order to fly the approach. Flight informed ATC that we could not maintain visual, as we were in moderate rain. Approach then cleared us to 16000 ft MSL and gave us a vector to intercept the localizer to runway 36. ATC should not clear an aircraft for the mt vernon visual without asking the aircraft if it has got the visual landmarks in sight. Supplemental information from acn 386310: we were told earlier to expect ILS runway 36. Approach (as usual for dca) was overloaded. In an attempt to reduce separation (I think) he suddenly started issuing visual approachs. He never inquired if we were in visual conditions. It was difficult to inform approach we could not do visual due to his 'rapid fire' non-stop instructions. This type of overloading and reducing below normal separation is becoming the norm at dca. Someone needs to correct this before an accident occurs.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: AN ACR B737 FLC RPTS THAT AN APCH CTLR CLRED THEM FOR A VISUAL APCH IN NON-VISUAL CONDITIONS. THE CTLR HAD NOT ASKED THE FLC IF THEY SAW THE FIELD OR OTHER VISUAL CUES BEFOREHAND. THE FLC REFUSED THE CLRNC.
Narrative: ACFT WAS BEING RADAR VECTORED TO FLY THE MT VERNON VISUAL APCH, WHICH IS A VFR MANEUVER. APCH CLRED FLT FOR THE MT VERNON APCH WITHOUT ASKING THE FLT IF IT HAD VISUAL CONTACT WITH THE RIVER IN ORDER TO FLY THE APCH. FLT INFORMED ATC THAT WE COULD NOT MAINTAIN VISUAL, AS WE WERE IN MODERATE RAIN. APCH THEN CLRED US TO 16000 FT MSL AND GAVE US A VECTOR TO INTERCEPT THE LOC TO RWY 36. ATC SHOULD NOT CLR AN ACFT FOR THE MT VERNON VISUAL WITHOUT ASKING THE ACFT IF IT HAS GOT THE VISUAL LANDMARKS IN SIGHT. SUPPLEMENTAL INFO FROM ACN 386310: WE WERE TOLD EARLIER TO EXPECT ILS RWY 36. APCH (AS USUAL FOR DCA) WAS OVERLOADED. IN AN ATTEMPT TO REDUCE SEPARATION (I THINK) HE SUDDENLY STARTED ISSUING VISUAL APCHS. HE NEVER INQUIRED IF WE WERE IN VISUAL CONDITIONS. IT WAS DIFFICULT TO INFORM APCH WE COULD NOT DO VISUAL DUE TO HIS 'RAPID FIRE' NON-STOP INSTRUCTIONS. THIS TYPE OF OVERLOADING AND REDUCING BELOW NORMAL SEPARATION IS BECOMING THE NORM AT DCA. SOMEONE NEEDS TO CORRECT THIS BEFORE AN ACCIDENT OCCURS.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.