 |
37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
B757 aircraft with descent and crossing restr, reporter first officer attempts to coordination with PF captain concerning making the restr. Captain ignores first officer input and doesn't make the restr.
| Attributes | |
| ACN | 387064 |
| Time | |
| Date | 199711 |
| Day | Wed |
| Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
| Place | |
| Locale Reference | atc facility : zla |
| State Reference | CA |
| Altitude | msl bound lower : 24000 msl bound upper : 26500 |
| Environment | |
| Flight Conditions | VMC |
| Light | Daylight |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Controlling Facilities | artcc : zla |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | B757 Undifferentiated or Other Model |
| Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
| Navigation In Use | Other Other |
| Flight Phase | descent other |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Person 1 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : first officer |
| Qualification | pilot : atp |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 200 flight time total : 16500 flight time type : 1900 |
| ASRS Report | 387064 |
| Person 2 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
| Qualification | pilot : atp |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | altitude deviation : undershoot altitude deviation : crossing restriction not met non adherence : clearance other anomaly other |
| Independent Detector | other controllera other flight crewa |
| Resolutory Action | none taken : insufficient time other |
| Consequence | Other |
| Supplementary | |
| Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
| Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation |
Narrative:
We were on the last leg of a 3 leg day which had originated in jfk. Scheduled block was 7 hours 49 mins for the day. Due to much higher winds aloft and delays into lax, the last leg started after having 8 hours and 40 mins block time. The captain and myself were having a slightly strained relationship in the flight deck and the long day was aggravating it. The clearance to cross jokur at 24000 ft long before we reached cruising altitude of 33000 ft. ATC advised us we could level anywhere before 33000 ft. The captain said, no, he wanted 33000 ft. I think it was apparent to myself and ATC that at the rate of climb we wouldn't get level and still cross the fix at the altitude. When I suggested we level at 29000 ft he said it wouldn't be a problem. I went off ATC to get las ATIS. When I came back he was in a descent at that time. I asked him if we were going to make jokur at 24000 ft and he said yes. We crossed jokur at 26500 ft. Center asked us our altitude and he said to tell them leveling at 24000 ft. I don't think they believed us. When they didn't question us, the captain took that as not a problem in the bust. As for the solution to the problem, I should have stayed on ATC and advised them we wouldn't be able to make the crossing and not worry about the captain's ego. I flew a few days later with another captain who advised me to use a NASA report. When I asked the captain who busted the altitude about a NASA report he said don't worry about as ATC didn't question us about it.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: B757 ACFT WITH DSCNT AND XING RESTR, RPTR FO ATTEMPTS TO COORD WITH PF CAPT CONCERNING MAKING THE RESTR. CAPT IGNORES FO INPUT AND DOESN'T MAKE THE RESTR.
Narrative: WE WERE ON THE LAST LEG OF A 3 LEG DAY WHICH HAD ORIGINATED IN JFK. SCHEDULED BLOCK WAS 7 HRS 49 MINS FOR THE DAY. DUE TO MUCH HIGHER WINDS ALOFT AND DELAYS INTO LAX, THE LAST LEG STARTED AFTER HAVING 8 HRS AND 40 MINS BLOCK TIME. THE CAPT AND MYSELF WERE HAVING A SLIGHTLY STRAINED RELATIONSHIP IN THE FLT DECK AND THE LONG DAY WAS AGGRAVATING IT. THE CLRNC TO CROSS JOKUR AT 24000 FT LONG BEFORE WE REACHED CRUISING ALT OF 33000 FT. ATC ADVISED US WE COULD LEVEL ANYWHERE BEFORE 33000 FT. THE CAPT SAID, NO, HE WANTED 33000 FT. I THINK IT WAS APPARENT TO MYSELF AND ATC THAT AT THE RATE OF CLB WE WOULDN'T GET LEVEL AND STILL CROSS THE FIX AT THE ALT. WHEN I SUGGESTED WE LEVEL AT 29000 FT HE SAID IT WOULDN'T BE A PROB. I WENT OFF ATC TO GET LAS ATIS. WHEN I CAME BACK HE WAS IN A DSCNT AT THAT TIME. I ASKED HIM IF WE WERE GOING TO MAKE JOKUR AT 24000 FT AND HE SAID YES. WE CROSSED JOKUR AT 26500 FT. CTR ASKED US OUR ALT AND HE SAID TO TELL THEM LEVELING AT 24000 FT. I DON'T THINK THEY BELIEVED US. WHEN THEY DIDN'T QUESTION US, THE CAPT TOOK THAT AS NOT A PROB IN THE BUST. AS FOR THE SOLUTION TO THE PROB, I SHOULD HAVE STAYED ON ATC AND ADVISED THEM WE WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO MAKE THE XING AND NOT WORRY ABOUT THE CAPT'S EGO. I FLEW A FEW DAYS LATER WITH ANOTHER CAPT WHO ADVISED ME TO USE A NASA RPT. WHEN I ASKED THE CAPT WHO BUSTED THE ALT ABOUT A NASA RPT HE SAID DON'T WORRY ABOUT AS ATC DIDN'T QUESTION US ABOUT IT.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.