37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 389476 |
Time | |
Date | 199712 |
Day | Fri |
Local Time Of Day | 0001 To 0600 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : oak |
State Reference | CA |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 2000 msl bound upper : 2000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Night |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : oak |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Widebody, Low Wing, 2 Turbojet Eng |
Navigation In Use | Other Other |
Flight Phase | climbout : intermediate altitude climbout : takeoff |
Route In Use | departure : noise abatement departure other departure sid : sid |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : instrument pilot : flight engineer pilot : cfi pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 600 flight time total : 12400 flight time type : 1500 |
ASRS Report | 389476 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : commercial pilot : instrument |
Events | |
Anomaly | non adherence : clearance non adherence : published procedure other anomaly other other spatial deviation |
Independent Detector | other controllera |
Resolutory Action | controller : issued new clearance other |
Consequence | Other |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | Chart Or Publication |
Air Traffic Incident | other |
Situations | |
Publication | Unspecified |
Narrative:
ACARS pre departure clearance was oak 5 oak lin J84 MVA taf maintain FL230, contact bay departure 134.5, squawk XXXX, 250 KTS until advised. In small print discovered after problem arose, on the oak 5 departure between the hours of XA00-XJ00 local use the siln 7 departure. Bay departure asked if we were doing siln 7, and we said no, pre departure clearance gave us oak 5. Do not believe that there was a problem though bay departure gave us radar vectors to lin. This probably has occurred before with other aircraft. To prevent this assign departure that you will fly not assign one, when really you mean another. This is a problem, and in small print. If assigned siln 7 departure do you have to find small print that says between the hours of XA00-XJ00 local you really should fly the oak 5? Also clearance delivery should clarify this if you are really flying something different from what you were given. If oak 5 then fly it, not something different. This should be cleared up. Very misleading. Call if you need more, this must be changed. Callback conversation with reporter revealed the following information: reporter states he flew the same departure again recently and was given radar vectors so there was no problem with the departure. The hotline was recommended. Communication with company was also recommended since they are the ones who file the departure and need to be aware of the problem too. Reporter suggested if they cannot change the amendment of the departure that perhaps they should at least put the information in bold type.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: FLC OF B767-300ER RECEIVES PDC TO FLY THE OAK 5 DEP. DURING BRIEF THEY MISS THE NOTATION TO FLY THE SILENT DEP BTWN XA00 AND XJ00 LCL IN LIEU OF THE OAKLAND DEP. DURING INITIAL CLB CTLR QUERIES AND THEN ISSUES RADAR VECTORS.
Narrative: ACARS PDC WAS OAK 5 OAK LIN J84 MVA TAF MAINTAIN FL230, CONTACT BAY DEP 134.5, SQUAWK XXXX, 250 KTS UNTIL ADVISED. IN SMALL PRINT DISCOVERED AFTER PROB AROSE, ON THE OAK 5 DEP BTWN THE HRS OF XA00-XJ00 LCL USE THE SILN 7 DEP. BAY DEP ASKED IF WE WERE DOING SILN 7, AND WE SAID NO, PDC GAVE US OAK 5. DO NOT BELIEVE THAT THERE WAS A PROB THOUGH BAY DEP GAVE US RADAR VECTORS TO LIN. THIS PROBABLY HAS OCCURRED BEFORE WITH OTHER ACFT. TO PREVENT THIS ASSIGN DEP THAT YOU WILL FLY NOT ASSIGN ONE, WHEN REALLY YOU MEAN ANOTHER. THIS IS A PROB, AND IN SMALL PRINT. IF ASSIGNED SILN 7 DEP DO YOU HAVE TO FIND SMALL PRINT THAT SAYS BTWN THE HRS OF XA00-XJ00 LCL YOU REALLY SHOULD FLY THE OAK 5? ALSO CLRNC DELIVERY SHOULD CLARIFY THIS IF YOU ARE REALLY FLYING SOMETHING DIFFERENT FROM WHAT YOU WERE GIVEN. IF OAK 5 THEN FLY IT, NOT SOMETHING DIFFERENT. THIS SHOULD BE CLRED UP. VERY MISLEADING. CALL IF YOU NEED MORE, THIS MUST BE CHANGED. CALLBACK CONVERSATION WITH RPTR REVEALED THE FOLLOWING INFO: RPTR STATES HE FLEW THE SAME DEP AGAIN RECENTLY AND WAS GIVEN RADAR VECTORS SO THERE WAS NO PROB WITH THE DEP. THE HOTLINE WAS RECOMMENDED. COM WITH COMPANY WAS ALSO RECOMMENDED SINCE THEY ARE THE ONES WHO FILE THE DEP AND NEED TO BE AWARE OF THE PROB TOO. RPTR SUGGESTED IF THEY CANNOT CHANGE THE AMENDMENT OF THE DEP THAT PERHAPS THEY SHOULD AT LEAST PUT THE INFO IN BOLD TYPE.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.