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An F100 flight crew is confused over wake turbulence separation standards. Are they 4-5 mi or can the flight crew request a 2 min time separation that would give some additional space between departure aircraft? ATC tower pressured this crew into waiving the 2 min separation because they had not requested it from ground control prior to taking the runway.
| Attributes | |
| ACN | 392780 |
| Time | |
| Date | 199801 |
| Day | Tue |
| Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
| Place | |
| Locale Reference | airport : atl |
| State Reference | GA |
| Altitude | agl bound lower : 0 agl bound upper : 0 |
| Environment | |
| Light | Daylight |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | Fokker 100 |
| Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
| Navigation In Use | Other Other |
| Flight Phase | ground : holding ground other : taxi |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Person 1 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
| Qualification | pilot : atp |
| ASRS Report | 392780 |
| Person 2 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : first officer |
| Qualification | pilot : instrument pilot : commercial |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | inflight encounter other other anomaly other |
| Independent Detector | other controllera |
| Resolutory Action | other |
| Consequence | Other |
| Supplementary | |
| Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
| Air Traffic Incident | other |
| Situations | |
| ATC Facility | procedure or policy : unspecified |
Narrative:
Atl tower pressured us to waive 2 min wake turbulence separation for standard 5 mi separation. They claim you must make this request with ground control as per the book. My question is: in what book? The aim, or the ATC manual? All of the conversation was initiated by ATC over tower frequency. They claimed rather ambiguously that once you miss a slot or window you must wait for another slot to open. Meaning, on a VMC day, slots are only granted on a standard level 3 mi, 5 mi, etc, and cannot be provided with reference to time. Both the first officer and myself were confused. Please clarify.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: AN F100 FLC IS CONFUSED OVER WAKE TURB SEPARATION STANDARDS. ARE THEY 4-5 MI OR CAN THE FLC REQUEST A 2 MIN TIME SEPARATION THAT WOULD GIVE SOME ADDITIONAL SPACE BTWN DEP ACFT? ATC TWR PRESSURED THIS CREW INTO WAIVING THE 2 MIN SEPARATION BECAUSE THEY HAD NOT REQUESTED IT FROM GND CTL PRIOR TO TAKING THE RWY.
Narrative: ATL TWR PRESSURED US TO WAIVE 2 MIN WAKE TURB SEPARATION FOR STANDARD 5 MI SEPARATION. THEY CLAIM YOU MUST MAKE THIS REQUEST WITH GND CTL AS PER THE BOOK. MY QUESTION IS: IN WHAT BOOK? THE AIM, OR THE ATC MANUAL? ALL OF THE CONVERSATION WAS INITIATED BY ATC OVER TWR FREQ. THEY CLAIMED RATHER AMBIGUOUSLY THAT ONCE YOU MISS A SLOT OR WINDOW YOU MUST WAIT FOR ANOTHER SLOT TO OPEN. MEANING, ON A VMC DAY, SLOTS ARE ONLY GRANTED ON A STANDARD LEVEL 3 MI, 5 MI, ETC, AND CANNOT BE PROVIDED WITH REF TO TIME. BOTH THE FO AND MYSELF WERE CONFUSED. PLEASE CLARIFY.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.