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Attributes | |
ACN | 396357 |
Time | |
Date | 199803 |
Day | Sat |
Local Time Of Day | 0601 To 1200 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | atc facility : las airport : vgt |
State Reference | NV |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 3500 msl bound upper : 5000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : las |
Operator | general aviation : personal |
Make Model Name | PA-46 Malibu |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 91 |
Flight Phase | climbout : intermediate altitude cruise other cruise other |
Route In Use | approach : visual departure other enroute : on vectors |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | Other |
Function | flight crew : single pilot |
Qualification | other other : other pilot : instrument pilot : commercial |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 43 flight time total : 2000 flight time type : 1080 |
ASRS Report | 396357 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | government : faa |
Function | controller : departure |
Qualification | controller : radar |
Events | |
Anomaly | other anomaly other |
Independent Detector | other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | other |
Consequence | faa : reviewed incident with flight crew |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | other |
Narrative:
On mar/sat/98, I encountered a dangerous situation in-flight when, after takeoff, I was forced to abort my flight to san diego and return to the north las vegas airport, because the controllers at mccarran airport failed to clear me for IFR on a properly filed IFR flight plan. I filed an IFR flight plan for my PA46- 350P for departure from north las vegas airport to san diego. I advised the tower at north las vegas that I would takeoff VFR and pick up my IFR flight plan in the air. North las vegas cleared me on runway 30, left turn out and departure frequency of 125.9. I ascended to 3500 ft after departure on a heading of 210 degrees. I called departure on frequency 125.9 and advised them of departure from vgt and requested IFR clearance, as previously filed. Departure advised to change transponder code XXXX and identify. Departure further advised radar contact 5 mi west of bank building. For the second time, I requested IFR clearance, as previously filed. For the second time, departure failed to respond to my request. Instead, I was advised to continue on my heading. Within a few mins, departure advised that I was now outside the B airspace and that I should 'resume own navigation.' I again requested IFR clearance. At this point I was approaching the spring mountains which were obscured by clouds, making it imperative that I receive IFR clearance and take a southerly heading. For the third time, departure did not respond to my request. I continued on a southerly heading outside of the B airspace. Upon reaching the general area of cottonwood pass and mt potosi, where the carole lombard air tragedy occurred, I turned momentarily to the west, then headed wnw between the cloud obscured mountains and the B airspace. While making the turn, on frequency 125.9 departure advised that I had entered B airspace. I don't believe that I had entered B airspace and that my turn was accomplished at the outer edge of the B airspace. At this time, I requested, for the fourth time that I be granted IFR clearance as filed, or that I would need to return to the north las vegas airport. I also told them that, due to the cloud cover, I would not be able to maintain a VFR flight. I was then informed by the controller that, 'we don't have an IFR plan filed for you.' I responded, 'I can't understand that because I filed it on the ground before I left.' I told him that I would not be able to maintain VFR because of cloud cover over the mountains and it would be necessary for me to return to north las vegas airport. The controller responded with squawk 1200 VFR and his last words were, 'radar service terminated frequency change approved contact north las vegas tower.' I then descended to 3500 ft direct to lone mountain and contacted 125.7 vgt tower. They advised me to follow traffic from lone mountain to bank building and that I would be #2 landing for runway 30. I proceeded to land at north las vegas airport without incident. Ground control at north las vegas advised me to copy TRACON telephone number and advised me to call them. Prior to making the requested phone call, I called reno where I had originally filed my flight plan and confirmed with ms xx that the IFR plan had indeed been filed and assigned code number XXX. She told me that my flight plan was still active. She commented to me that she couldn't understand why mccarran didn't issue me a clearance because the flight plan was still 'hot' or active in the system. After speaking with ms xx I telephoned the TRACON number and spoke with mr Y. I reviewed the situation with him and he said that the controller did not tell me that they didn't have a flight plan for me, but instead told me that they didn't have time to handle me. (In either situation, the result is the same, I was forced to abort my flight for their failure to grant my repeated requests for clearance on a valid flight plan.) he further informed me that I should have stayed on the ground and not try to pick up clearance in the air. It then occurred to me that when I took off from north las vegas airport, that there were 6 aircraft going IFR east to the grand canyon. Since they were proceeding in an opposite direction, I took the option of departing VFR west. We then discussed some of the recurring problems in the airspace. Mr Y said that the ATC sysin the las vegas is overcrowded and that they have been working on bettering the system for 3 yrs. He apologized for needing to write up the incident, but claimed that he was protecting his job. I did not feel, nor after having reviewed the situation again, that I committed a violation by flying into B airspace. If there is a slim chance that I did fly into B airspace, I did so only because my own airspace was decreasing due to the increasing cloud cover and my limited options from the controller. I have been transiting mccarran airspace since 1983 on IFR flight plans or VFR with squawk issued to transit B airspace without any prior problems until march of this yr. I believe that this problem arose because, even though it is legal and was a previously accepted practice, the controllers want to discourage GA aircraft from entering mccarran airspace. Further they want to discourage aircraft from departing VFR and picking up a flight plan in the air. I felt that my taking advantage of a VFR departure and attempting to pick up my previously filed flight in the air was an acceptable means of flying that day. I had received clearance and a VFR squawk from the north las vegas tower and a departure frequency for mccarran. Instead, I was put in a dangerous flying condition because of the unwillingness of the mccarran controller to respond to my repeated requests for IFR clearance which led to me aborting my flight. This whole incident could have been averted, at any time, if the mccarran controller granted me IFR clearance, on my previously filed flight plan, and vectored my plane away from B airspace. However, if mccarran no longer allows for pick up of an IFR flight plan in the air, then pilots should be notified. Instead, it appears that the mccarran controllers, by their conduct, are discouraging GA aircraft from entering their airspace, or ignoring them when they do. I hope by filing this incident report, future occurrences of this nature can be avoided, or pilots can be advised up front when they are about to get dumped out of mccarran airspace.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: RPTR CLAIMS DANGEROUS SIT AFTER A VFR DEP AND WAS UNABLE TO PICK UP AN IFR CLRNC WITH APCH CTL AND WAS FORCED TO RETURN TO THE ARPT DUE TO CLOUD COVER.
Narrative: ON MAR/SAT/98, I ENCOUNTERED A DANGEROUS SIT INFLT WHEN, AFTER TKOF, I WAS FORCED TO ABORT MY FLT TO SAN DIEGO AND RETURN TO THE NORTH LAS VEGAS ARPT, BECAUSE THE CTLRS AT MCCARRAN ARPT FAILED TO CLR ME FOR IFR ON A PROPERLY FILED IFR FLT PLAN. I FILED AN IFR FLT PLAN FOR MY PA46- 350P FOR DEP FROM NORTH LAS VEGAS ARPT TO SAN DIEGO. I ADVISED THE TWR AT NORTH LAS VEGAS THAT I WOULD TKOF VFR AND PICK UP MY IFR FLT PLAN IN THE AIR. NORTH LAS VEGAS CLRED ME ON RWY 30, L TURN OUT AND DEP FREQ OF 125.9. I ASCENDED TO 3500 FT AFTER DEP ON A HDG OF 210 DEGS. I CALLED DEP ON FREQ 125.9 AND ADVISED THEM OF DEP FROM VGT AND REQUESTED IFR CLRNC, AS PREVIOUSLY FILED. DEP ADVISED TO CHANGE XPONDER CODE XXXX AND IDENT. DEP FURTHER ADVISED RADAR CONTACT 5 MI W OF BANK BUILDING. FOR THE SECOND TIME, I REQUESTED IFR CLRNC, AS PREVIOUSLY FILED. FOR THE SECOND TIME, DEP FAILED TO RESPOND TO MY REQUEST. INSTEAD, I WAS ADVISED TO CONTINUE ON MY HEADING. WITHIN A FEW MINS, DEP ADVISED THAT I WAS NOW OUTSIDE THE B AIRSPACE AND THAT I SHOULD 'RESUME OWN NAV.' I AGAIN REQUESTED IFR CLRNC. AT THIS POINT I WAS APCHING THE SPRING MOUNTAINS WHICH WERE OBSCURED BY CLOUDS, MAKING IT IMPERATIVE THAT I RECEIVE IFR CLRNC AND TAKE A SOUTHERLY HEADING. FOR THE THIRD TIME, DEP DID NOT RESPOND TO MY REQUEST. I CONTINUED ON A SOUTHERLY HEADING OUTSIDE OF THE B AIRSPACE. UPON REACHING THE GENERAL AREA OF COTTONWOOD PASS AND MT POTOSI, WHERE THE CAROLE LOMBARD AIR TRAGEDY OCCURRED, I TURNED MOMENTARILY TO THE W, THEN HEADED WNW BTWN THE CLOUD OBSCURED MOUNTAINS AND THE B AIRSPACE. WHILE MAKING THE TURN, ON FREQ 125.9 DEP ADVISED THAT I HAD ENTERED B AIRSPACE. I DON'T BELIEVE THAT I HAD ENTERED B AIRSPACE AND THAT MY TURN WAS ACCOMPLISHED AT THE OUTER EDGE OF THE B AIRSPACE. AT THIS TIME, I REQUESTED, FOR THE FOURTH TIME THAT I BE GRANTED IFR CLRNC AS FILED, OR THAT I WOULD NEED TO RETURN TO THE NORTH LAS VEGAS ARPT. I ALSO TOLD THEM THAT, DUE TO THE CLOUD COVER, I WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO MAINTAIN A VFR FLT. I WAS THEN INFORMED BY THE CTLR THAT, 'WE DON'T HAVE AN IFR PLAN FILED FOR YOU.' I RESPONDED, 'I CAN'T UNDERSTAND THAT BECAUSE I FILED IT ON THE GND BEFORE I LEFT.' I TOLD HIM THAT I WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO MAINTAIN VFR BECAUSE OF CLOUD COVER OVER THE MOUNTAINS AND IT WOULD BE NECESSARY FOR ME TO RETURN TO NORTH LAS VEGAS ARPT. THE CTLR RESPONDED WITH SQUAWK 1200 VFR AND HIS LAST WORDS WERE, 'RADAR SVC TERMINATED FREQ CHANGE APPROVED CONTACT NORTH LAS VEGAS TWR.' I THEN DSNDED TO 3500 FT DIRECT TO LONE MOUNTAIN AND CONTACTED 125.7 VGT TWR. THEY ADVISED ME TO FOLLOW TFC FROM LONE MOUNTAIN TO BANK BUILDING AND THAT I WOULD BE #2 LNDG FOR RWY 30. I PROCEEDED TO LAND AT NORTH LAS VEGAS ARPT WITHOUT INCIDENT. GND CTL AT NORTH LAS VEGAS ADVISED ME TO COPY TRACON TELEPHONE NUMBER AND ADVISED ME TO CALL THEM. PRIOR TO MAKING THE REQUESTED PHONE CALL, I CALLED RENO WHERE I HAD ORIGINALLY FILED MY FLT PLAN AND CONFIRMED WITH MS XX THAT THE IFR PLAN HAD INDEED BEEN FILED AND ASSIGNED CODE NUMBER XXX. SHE TOLD ME THAT MY FLT PLAN WAS STILL ACTIVE. SHE COMMENTED TO ME THAT SHE COULDN'T UNDERSTAND WHY MCCARRAN DIDN'T ISSUE ME A CLRNC BECAUSE THE FLT PLAN WAS STILL 'HOT' OR ACTIVE IN THE SYS. AFTER SPEAKING WITH MS XX I TELEPHONED THE TRACON NUMBER AND SPOKE WITH MR Y. I REVIEWED THE SIT WITH HIM AND HE SAID THAT THE CTLR DID NOT TELL ME THAT THEY DIDN'T HAVE A FLT PLAN FOR ME, BUT INSTEAD TOLD ME THAT THEY DIDN'T HAVE TIME TO HANDLE ME. (IN EITHER SIT, THE RESULT IS THE SAME, I WAS FORCED TO ABORT MY FLT FOR THEIR FAILURE TO GRANT MY REPEATED REQUESTS FOR CLRNC ON A VALID FLT PLAN.) HE FURTHER INFORMED ME THAT I SHOULD HAVE STAYED ON THE GND AND NOT TRY TO PICK UP CLRNC IN THE AIR. IT THEN OCCURRED TO ME THAT WHEN I TOOK OFF FROM NORTH LAS VEGAS ARPT, THAT THERE WERE 6 ACFT GOING IFR E TO THE GRAND CANYON. SINCE THEY WERE PROCEEDING IN AN OPPOSITE DIRECTION, I TOOK THE OPTION OF DEPARTING VFR W. WE THEN DISCUSSED SOME OF THE RECURRING PROBS IN THE AIRSPACE. MR Y SAID THAT THE ATC SYSIN THE LAS VEGAS IS OVERCROWDED AND THAT THEY HAVE BEEN WORKING ON BETTERING THE SYS FOR 3 YRS. HE APOLOGIZED FOR NEEDING TO WRITE UP THE INCIDENT, BUT CLAIMED THAT HE WAS PROTECTING HIS JOB. I DID NOT FEEL, NOR AFTER HAVING REVIEWED THE SIT AGAIN, THAT I COMMITTED A VIOLATION BY FLYING INTO B AIRSPACE. IF THERE IS A SLIM CHANCE THAT I DID FLY INTO B AIRSPACE, I DID SO ONLY BECAUSE MY OWN AIRSPACE WAS DECREASING DUE TO THE INCREASING CLOUD COVER AND MY LIMITED OPTIONS FROM THE CTLR. I HAVE BEEN TRANSITING MCCARRAN AIRSPACE SINCE 1983 ON IFR FLT PLANS OR VFR WITH SQUAWK ISSUED TO TRANSIT B AIRSPACE WITHOUT ANY PRIOR PROBS UNTIL MARCH OF THIS YR. I BELIEVE THAT THIS PROB AROSE BECAUSE, EVEN THOUGH IT IS LEGAL AND WAS A PREVIOUSLY ACCEPTED PRACTICE, THE CTLRS WANT TO DISCOURAGE GA ACFT FROM ENTERING MCCARRAN AIRSPACE. FURTHER THEY WANT TO DISCOURAGE ACFT FROM DEPARTING VFR AND PICKING UP A FLT PLAN IN THE AIR. I FELT THAT MY TAKING ADVANTAGE OF A VFR DEP AND ATTEMPTING TO PICK UP MY PREVIOUSLY FILED FLT IN THE AIR WAS AN ACCEPTABLE MEANS OF FLYING THAT DAY. I HAD RECEIVED CLRNC AND A VFR SQUAWK FROM THE NORTH LAS VEGAS TWR AND A DEP FREQ FOR MCCARRAN. INSTEAD, I WAS PUT IN A DANGEROUS FLYING CONDITION BECAUSE OF THE UNWILLINGNESS OF THE MCCARRAN CTLR TO RESPOND TO MY REPEATED REQUESTS FOR IFR CLRNC WHICH LED TO ME ABORTING MY FLT. THIS WHOLE INCIDENT COULD HAVE BEEN AVERTED, AT ANY TIME, IF THE MCCARRAN CTLR GRANTED ME IFR CLRNC, ON MY PREVIOUSLY FILED FLT PLAN, AND VECTORED MY PLANE AWAY FROM B AIRSPACE. HOWEVER, IF MCCARRAN NO LONGER ALLOWS FOR PICK UP OF AN IFR FLT PLAN IN THE AIR, THEN PLTS SHOULD BE NOTIFIED. INSTEAD, IT APPEARS THAT THE MCCARRAN CTLRS, BY THEIR CONDUCT, ARE DISCOURAGING GA ACFT FROM ENTERING THEIR AIRSPACE, OR IGNORING THEM WHEN THEY DO. I HOPE BY FILING THIS INCIDENT RPT, FUTURE OCCURRENCES OF THIS NATURE CAN BE AVOIDED, OR PLTS CAN BE ADVISED UP FRONT WHEN THEY ARE ABOUT TO GET DUMPED OUT OF MCCARRAN AIRSPACE.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.