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A landing B767-300 flight crew complains of a late warning for determining the decision ht authority/authorized for an ILS to bos runway 4R when tower reports 'caution, ship in the channel with a ht of 150 ft.' the authority/authorized decision ht with a 'tall ship' in the channel is 359 ft versus 218 ft normally. One reporter suggested that the approach controller give the advisory.
| Attributes | |
| ACN | 405863 |
| Time | |
| Date | 199806 |
| Day | Fri |
| Local Time Of Day | 1801 To 2400 |
| Place | |
| Locale Reference | airport : bos |
| State Reference | MA |
| Altitude | msl bound lower : 360 msl bound upper : 1000 |
| Environment | |
| Flight Conditions | IMC |
| Light | Daylight |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Controlling Facilities | tracon : bos tower : bos tower : ttn |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | B767-300 and 300 ER |
| Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
| Navigation In Use | Other Other |
| Flight Phase | descent : approach |
| Route In Use | approach : straight in arrival other |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Person 1 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
| Qualification | pilot : atp |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 180 flight time total : 13000 flight time type : 1000 |
| ASRS Report | 405863 |
| Person 2 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : first officer |
| Qualification | pilot : instrument pilot : commercial |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 190 flight time total : 7000 flight time type : 800 |
| ASRS Report | 405853 |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | conflict : airborne less severe inflight encounter : weather other anomaly other |
| Independent Detector | other controllera other flight crewa |
| Resolutory Action | none taken : anomaly accepted |
| Consequence | Other |
| Supplementary | |
| Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
| Air Traffic Incident | other |
| Situations | |
| ATC Facility | procedure or policy : unspecified |
Narrative:
After a holding period of about 30 mins we began our approach to bos airport. We received the ATIS: RVR to 6000 ft mid 2000 ft rollout 4000 ft. We switched frequency from approach to tower at the marker. While inside the FAF, tower reported 'ship in harbor area.' the captain was flying and the first officer had to check the new decision ht and required visibility. An RVR of 6000 ft or 1 1/4 mi was required and that was the reported RVR. We had the runway environment in sight at the new decision ht of 359 ft. An uneventful landing was made. The problem was the confusion caused by the late information given by tower controller inside the FAF, which is a high workload area. I realize someone has to be the first to get this information but it should be supplied by approach and not by tower. You don't need to be wondering if you are legal while you are looking for the approach lights. Supplemental information from acn 405853: several hundred ft above minimums (and past the FAF) tower reported a ship approaching area right to left (with a 160 ft mast). On short final we changed our minimums from 218 ft MSL to 359 ft MSL (tall vessel in approach area) minimums. The runway lights were observed as we approached our new minimums. On short final we had a boat in sight along with the waterway and runway lights. At that time I asked tower if we were still cleared to land and they said yes.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: A LNDG B767-300 FLC COMPLAINS OF A LATE WARNING FOR DETERMINING THE DECISION HT AUTH FOR AN ILS TO BOS RWY 4R WHEN TWR RPTS 'CAUTION, SHIP IN THE CHANNEL WITH A HT OF 150 FT.' THE AUTH DECISION HT WITH A 'TALL SHIP' IN THE CHANNEL IS 359 FT VERSUS 218 FT NORMALLY. ONE RPTR SUGGESTED THAT THE APCH CTLR GIVE THE ADVISORY.
Narrative: AFTER A HOLDING PERIOD OF ABOUT 30 MINS WE BEGAN OUR APCH TO BOS ARPT. WE RECEIVED THE ATIS: RVR TO 6000 FT MID 2000 FT ROLLOUT 4000 FT. WE SWITCHED FREQ FROM APCH TO TWR AT THE MARKER. WHILE INSIDE THE FAF, TWR RPTED 'SHIP IN HARBOR AREA.' THE CAPT WAS FLYING AND THE FO HAD TO CHK THE NEW DECISION HT AND REQUIRED VISIBILITY. AN RVR OF 6000 FT OR 1 1/4 MI WAS REQUIRED AND THAT WAS THE RPTED RVR. WE HAD THE RWY ENVIRONMENT IN SIGHT AT THE NEW DECISION HT OF 359 FT. AN UNEVENTFUL LNDG WAS MADE. THE PROB WAS THE CONFUSION CAUSED BY THE LATE INFO GIVEN BY TWR CTLR INSIDE THE FAF, WHICH IS A HIGH WORKLOAD AREA. I REALIZE SOMEONE HAS TO BE THE FIRST TO GET THIS INFO BUT IT SHOULD BE SUPPLIED BY APCH AND NOT BY TWR. YOU DON'T NEED TO BE WONDERING IF YOU ARE LEGAL WHILE YOU ARE LOOKING FOR THE APCH LIGHTS. SUPPLEMENTAL INFO FROM ACN 405853: SEVERAL HUNDRED FT ABOVE MINIMUMS (AND PAST THE FAF) TWR RPTED A SHIP APCHING AREA R TO L (WITH A 160 FT MAST). ON SHORT FINAL WE CHANGED OUR MINIMUMS FROM 218 FT MSL TO 359 FT MSL (TALL VESSEL IN APCH AREA) MINIMUMS. THE RWY LIGHTS WERE OBSERVED AS WE APCHED OUR NEW MINIMUMS. ON SHORT FINAL WE HAD A BOAT IN SIGHT ALONG WITH THE WATERWAY AND RWY LIGHTS. AT THAT TIME I ASKED TWR IF WE WERE STILL CLRED TO LAND AND THEY SAID YES.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.