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37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
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Approach at den cleared air carrier for visual approach with 170 KT speed to the OM. Pilot claims that when switched to tower frequency, and before the OM, the tower controller issued a landing clearance and reclred the flight for a visual approach.
| Attributes | |
| ACN | 406654 |
| Time | |
| Date | 199806 |
| Day | Mon |
| Local Time Of Day | 0601 To 1200 |
| Place | |
| Locale Reference | atc facility : dia airport : den |
| State Reference | CO |
| Altitude | msl bound lower : 11000 msl bound upper : 11000 |
| Environment | |
| Flight Conditions | VMC |
| Light | Daylight |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Controlling Facilities | tracon : den tower : den |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | B737-300 |
| Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
| Navigation In Use | Other Other |
| Flight Phase | descent : approach landing : go around |
| Route In Use | approach : visual arrival other arrival star : star |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Person 1 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
| Qualification | pilot : atp pilot : flight engineer |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 200 flight time total : 13800 flight time type : 11000 |
| ASRS Report | 406654 |
| Person 2 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : first officer |
| Qualification | pilot : instrument pilot : commercial |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | other anomaly other anomaly other |
| Independent Detector | atc equipment other atc equipment : unspecified other controllera other flight crewa |
| Resolutory Action | none taken : unable other other |
| Consequence | Other |
| Supplementary | |
| Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
| Air Traffic Incident | other |
| Situations | |
| ATC Facility | procedure or policy : unspecified |
Narrative:
Den approach control cleared us for a visual to runway 7 dia. Instructed us to maintain 210 KTS to 10 DME, 170 KTS to OM. Approach control xferred us to tower. Den tower 'reclred' us for a visual approach and cleared us to land. We were high (kept high by den approach control). We had to slow our speed to be able to extend flaps and get down and stabilized. We slowed to about 170 KTS. Just outside OM, tower told us to climb to 8000 ft MSL and turn left. We asked why the go around. Tower was instructed by den approach. Den approach told us we did not comply with assigned airspeed. We interpreted that we were 'reclred' for visual by tower with no speed restrs. My mistakes were: 1) accepting speed clrncs, 2) not notifying tower we needed to slow. Den approach control is pushing the safety limits on B737's assigning these types of speed restrs. Callback conversation with reporter revealed the following information: pilot stated that he felt the action by the controller was punitive. He said was just recently made a B737 captain after flying copilot on B747 aircraft. He believes controllers handle the smaller type aircraft differently by issuing higher speeds on approachs and placing aircraft in a 'slam dunk' situation more often. Admitted in the situation at dia, he should have asked the TRACON for a slower speed before switching to the tower.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: APCH AT DEN CLRED ACR FOR VISUAL APCH WITH 170 KT SPD TO THE OM. PLT CLAIMS THAT WHEN SWITCHED TO TWR FREQ, AND BEFORE THE OM, THE TWR CTLR ISSUED A LNDG CLRNC AND RECLRED THE FLT FOR A VISUAL APCH.
Narrative: DEN APCH CTL CLRED US FOR A VISUAL TO RWY 7 DIA. INSTRUCTED US TO MAINTAIN 210 KTS TO 10 DME, 170 KTS TO OM. APCH CTL XFERRED US TO TWR. DEN TWR 'RECLRED' US FOR A VISUAL APCH AND CLRED US TO LAND. WE WERE HIGH (KEPT HIGH BY DEN APCH CTL). WE HAD TO SLOW OUR SPD TO BE ABLE TO EXTEND FLAPS AND GET DOWN AND STABILIZED. WE SLOWED TO ABOUT 170 KTS. JUST OUTSIDE OM, TWR TOLD US TO CLB TO 8000 FT MSL AND TURN L. WE ASKED WHY THE GAR. TWR WAS INSTRUCTED BY DEN APCH. DEN APCH TOLD US WE DID NOT COMPLY WITH ASSIGNED AIRSPD. WE INTERPED THAT WE WERE 'RECLRED' FOR VISUAL BY TWR WITH NO SPD RESTRS. MY MISTAKES WERE: 1) ACCEPTING SPD CLRNCS, 2) NOT NOTIFYING TWR WE NEEDED TO SLOW. DEN APCH CTL IS PUSHING THE SAFETY LIMITS ON B737'S ASSIGNING THESE TYPES OF SPD RESTRS. CALLBACK CONVERSATION WITH RPTR REVEALED THE FOLLOWING INFO: PLT STATED THAT HE FELT THE ACTION BY THE CTLR WAS PUNITIVE. HE SAID WAS JUST RECENTLY MADE A B737 CAPT AFTER FLYING COPLT ON B747 ACFT. HE BELIEVES CTLRS HANDLE THE SMALLER TYPE ACFT DIFFERENTLY BY ISSUING HIGHER SPDS ON APCHS AND PLACING ACFT IN A 'SLAM DUNK' SIT MORE OFTEN. ADMITTED IN THE SIT AT DIA, HE SHOULD HAVE ASKED THE TRACON FOR A SLOWER SPD BEFORE SWITCHING TO THE TWR.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.