37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 410918 |
Time | |
Date | 199808 |
Day | Tue |
Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | atc facility : chs |
State Reference | SC |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 27000 msl bound upper : 27000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | Mixed |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | artcc : zny tower : sgf |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Commercial Fixed Wing |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Flight Phase | cruise other |
Route In Use | enroute : atlantic enroute : other oceanic |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 230 flight time total : 12000 flight time type : 7000 |
ASRS Report | 410918 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : instrument pilot : commercial |
Events | |
Anomaly | non adherence : clearance other anomaly other other spatial deviation |
Independent Detector | other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | flight crew : declared emergency none taken : insufficient time |
Consequence | Other |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | Weather |
Narrative:
Sbound en route to san juan over the western atlantic approaching didle intersection, I noted a solid line of thunderstorms crossing our route about 100 NM south of didle intersection. I requested a deviation 20 NM west of course for WX through new york oceanic on 129.9. About 10 mins later, we had not received a clearance to deviate and I inquired again. New york on 129.9 said they would request it again but we were getting out of VHF range and should contact new york on HF. I asked about the status of our request on HF and was told that they still had not received a response from ATC. At this point I advised them that we were deviating 20 mi west of course. Later, I reported back on course and asked if they had ever gotten a deviation clearance from ATC for us and they said no. This delay/lack of ability to receive amended altitude/route clearance from new york oceanic is indicative of what I've experienced in 10 yrs of flying this route to the caribbean. 100 mi/15 mins seems to me to be about as good a lead time for a request as can reasonably be expected from a high speed turbojet. It's hard to believe in this age of advanced communications/computer technology that more timely responses from ATC are not possible. From my many yrs experience as a first officer on these rtes, I know that because of this situation many pilots don't even bother making requests via oceanic when a short notice deviation is required -- they just do it, banking on the big sky theory. In my situation, I had no choice but to deviate but, despite adequate notice, the system would not allow me to do so with an ATC clearance.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: CAPT OF AN ACR LGT DEVIATED AROUND WX BUILDUPS WHILE ON AN OCEANIC FLT ON HIS OWN COMMAND AUTH AFTER WAITING 15 MINS, AND MAKING 3 RADIO REQUESTS WITHOUT SUCCESS IN OBTAINING AN ANSWER. AFTER INTERCEPTING ASSIGNED COURSE HE INQUIRED AGAIN, AND AGAIN NONE HAD BEEN RECEIVED. AFTER SEVERAL YRS OF FLYING THE OCEANIC RTES, THE CAPT BELIEVES THAT THIS IS AN INADEQUATE CTL SYS FOR THE LATEST TECHNOLOGY AVAILABLE.
Narrative: SBOUND ENRTE TO SAN JUAN OVER THE WESTERN ATLANTIC APCHING DIDLE INTXN, I NOTED A SOLID LINE OF TSTMS XING OUR RTE ABOUT 100 NM S OF DIDLE INTXN. I REQUESTED A DEV 20 NM W OF COURSE FOR WX THROUGH NEW YORK OCEANIC ON 129.9. ABOUT 10 MINS LATER, WE HAD NOT RECEIVED A CLRNC TO DEVIATE AND I INQUIRED AGAIN. NEW YORK ON 129.9 SAID THEY WOULD REQUEST IT AGAIN BUT WE WERE GETTING OUT OF VHF RANGE AND SHOULD CONTACT NEW YORK ON HF. I ASKED ABOUT THE STATUS OF OUR REQUEST ON HF AND WAS TOLD THAT THEY STILL HAD NOT RECEIVED A RESPONSE FROM ATC. AT THIS POINT I ADVISED THEM THAT WE WERE DEVIATING 20 MI W OF COURSE. LATER, I RPTED BACK ON COURSE AND ASKED IF THEY HAD EVER GOTTEN A DEV CLRNC FROM ATC FOR US AND THEY SAID NO. THIS DELAY/LACK OF ABILITY TO RECEIVE AMENDED ALT/RTE CLRNC FROM NEW YORK OCEANIC IS INDICATIVE OF WHAT I'VE EXPERIENCED IN 10 YRS OF FLYING THIS RTE TO THE CARIBBEAN. 100 MI/15 MINS SEEMS TO ME TO BE ABOUT AS GOOD A LEAD TIME FOR A REQUEST AS CAN REASONABLY BE EXPECTED FROM A HIGH SPD TURBOJET. IT'S HARD TO BELIEVE IN THIS AGE OF ADVANCED COMS/COMPUTER TECHNOLOGY THAT MORE TIMELY RESPONSES FROM ATC ARE NOT POSSIBLE. FROM MY MANY YRS EXPERIENCE AS A FO ON THESE RTES, I KNOW THAT BECAUSE OF THIS SIT MANY PLTS DON'T EVEN BOTHER MAKING REQUESTS VIA OCEANIC WHEN A SHORT NOTICE DEV IS REQUIRED -- THEY JUST DO IT, BANKING ON THE BIG SKY THEORY. IN MY SIT, I HAD NO CHOICE BUT TO DEVIATE BUT, DESPITE ADEQUATE NOTICE, THE SYS WOULD NOT ALLOW ME TO DO SO WITH AN ATC CLRNC.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.