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|
Attributes | |
ACN | 413921 |
Time | |
Date | 199809 |
Day | Sun |
Local Time Of Day | 0601 To 1200 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : sfo |
State Reference | CA |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 1700 msl bound upper : 4000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tower : sfo |
Operator | general aviation : corporate |
Make Model Name | IAI1124/1124A/Westwind |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 91 |
Navigation In Use | Other |
Flight Phase | descent : approach descent other |
Route In Use | approach : visual arrival other enroute : on vectors |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Aircraft 2 | |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | B737-500 |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Navigation In Use | Other |
Flight Phase | descent : approach descent other |
Route In Use | approach : visual arrival other |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | Other |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 150 flight time total : 3530 flight time type : 1105 |
ASRS Report | 413921 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | Other |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Events | |
Anomaly | conflict : airborne less severe other anomaly other other spatial deviation |
Independent Detector | other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | flight crew : took evasive action flight crew : returned to intended course or assigned course |
Consequence | faa : reviewed incident with flight crew |
Miss Distance | horizontal : 200 vertical : 0 |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | other |
Narrative:
Aircraft X, westwind, for runway 28R, and aircraft Y, bowing 737 (other aircraft), for runway 28L. Class B sfo. While IFR on right downwind, maintain 210 KTS, we got a right turn heading 180 degrees (essentially a right base for runway 28R). ATC called traffic at 11 O'clock, a B737, aircraft Y, for runway 28L. We called the traffic in sight and the airport in sight. ATC cleared us, aircraft X, for the visual to runway 28R. We turned toward the airport at a normal and consistent rate of turn while slowing and lined up with runway 28R. After lining up on our centerline, I looked over at my 8:30 - 9 O'clock position to see the B737 again to confirm his position with ours. I then looked back up at the airport and noticed I had drifted slightly left of my centerline. I simply dipped my right wing a few degrees and lined myself back up with the runway 28R centerline. Just as I was establishing back on my centerline, the B737 captain calls out in an angry voice, 'get back on your centerline westwind!' I made no response back. I was around 6-7 mi out from the runway. Around 4 mi out, the B737 calls out, 'you better stay on your centerline westwind!' I realized he was very angry so I said 'sorry' to let him know that I had drifted left of my centerline, that it was not intentional. He replied 'you better be sorry!' while I was rolling out he yells out 'westwind, you better fill out a NASA report if you catch my drift!' another person came on the radio, 'oh, come one B737, lighten up.' I went into the FBO and called the tower. A woman answered and explained to me that he (the B737 pilot) was just hot under the collar. She explained that they never felt that there was a conflict or a problem. She explained that there was only 722 ft between runways, so you really have to stay close to your centerline. I agreed and explained I would make a conscientious effort to do so. 5 hours later, I called the sfo tower again to confirm they had no problem with our approach that morning. A man answered and said he was sitting in front of 'the logs' for the morning and saw nothing about it and that if they felt any reason that there was a problem they would have at least logged some type of comment. We kept visual contact and safe distances from the boeing at all times. Not once were we ever not established well within the localizer for runway 28R, as we used the localizer to back up our visual with the centerline. The 180 degree heading for base given to us by ATC set us up to be pointed directly at the boeing prior to turning toward final. This must have looked scary from the boeing passenger point of view and the crew also. The boeing pilot's comments on tower frequency were not necessary during an approach and only add distraction and clutter to the radios being used in such a busy terminal area. How could this have been avoided? Improved? ATC should stagger the arrs as to allow one plane to have a visual on the aircraft ahead and his runway. Diligence by both aircraft to maintain exact centerline. Supplemental information from acn 413931: on visual approach to sfo runway 28L, we were told traffic was high at 3 O'clock, descending for runway 28R and had us in sight. First officer sighted the traffic high at 3 O'clock. 15 seconds later, we received an RA from TCASII 'climb.' we now sighted the aircraft 'belly up' to us overshooting the final localizer of runway 28R. We maneuvered slightly to the left. We announced to the westwind that his overshoot was not appreciated. He accelerated past us. We both remarked that if he was doing a visual approach with us in sight, he had clearly lost sight of us at this point. His excessive closure, speed and his choice to lose sight of us, is the classic case that may someday result in a midair during simultaneous visual approachs to sfo runway 28L/right. Pilots need to honor the centerline during these approachs, avoid excessive speed, and closure -- and always maintain a visual on the aircraft you are following.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: WHILE CONDUCTING SIDE-BY VISUAL APCH TO SFO RWYS 28, A WW24, TURNING R BASE TO FINAL, DRIFTS TOWARD A B737 CONDUCTING A VISUAL APCH TO RWY 28L. THE B737 PIC MAKES AN OPEN COMMENT TO THE WW24 PLT. AFTER LNDG, BOTH PLTS CALL THE TWR SUPVR TO MAKE A COMMENT ON THE INCIDENT. NO FAA DOCUMENTATION WAS NOTED IN THE FACILITY OPS LOG.
Narrative: ACFT X, WESTWIND, FOR RWY 28R, AND ACFT Y, BOWING 737 (OTHER ACFT), FOR RWY 28L. CLASS B SFO. WHILE IFR ON R DOWNWIND, MAINTAIN 210 KTS, WE GOT A R TURN HDG 180 DEGS (ESSENTIALLY A R BASE FOR RWY 28R). ATC CALLED TFC AT 11 O'CLOCK, A B737, ACFT Y, FOR RWY 28L. WE CALLED THE TFC IN SIGHT AND THE ARPT IN SIGHT. ATC CLRED US, ACFT X, FOR THE VISUAL TO RWY 28R. WE TURNED TOWARD THE ARPT AT A NORMAL AND CONSISTENT RATE OF TURN WHILE SLOWING AND LINED UP WITH RWY 28R. AFTER LINING UP ON OUR CTRLINE, I LOOKED OVER AT MY 8:30 - 9 O'CLOCK POS TO SEE THE B737 AGAIN TO CONFIRM HIS POS WITH OURS. I THEN LOOKED BACK UP AT THE ARPT AND NOTICED I HAD DRIFTED SLIGHTLY L OF MY CTRLINE. I SIMPLY DIPPED MY R WING A FEW DEGS AND LINED MYSELF BACK UP WITH THE RWY 28R CTRLINE. JUST AS I WAS ESTABLISHING BACK ON MY CTRLINE, THE B737 CAPT CALLS OUT IN AN ANGRY VOICE, 'GET BACK ON YOUR CTRLINE WESTWIND!' I MADE NO RESPONSE BACK. I WAS AROUND 6-7 MI OUT FROM THE RWY. AROUND 4 MI OUT, THE B737 CALLS OUT, 'YOU BETTER STAY ON YOUR CTRLINE WESTWIND!' I REALIZED HE WAS VERY ANGRY SO I SAID 'SORRY' TO LET HIM KNOW THAT I HAD DRIFTED L OF MY CTRLINE, THAT IT WAS NOT INTENTIONAL. HE REPLIED 'YOU BETTER BE SORRY!' WHILE I WAS ROLLING OUT HE YELLS OUT 'WESTWIND, YOU BETTER FILL OUT A NASA RPT IF YOU CATCH MY DRIFT!' ANOTHER PERSON CAME ON THE RADIO, 'OH, COME ONE B737, LIGHTEN UP.' I WENT INTO THE FBO AND CALLED THE TWR. A WOMAN ANSWERED AND EXPLAINED TO ME THAT HE (THE B737 PLT) WAS JUST HOT UNDER THE COLLAR. SHE EXPLAINED THAT THEY NEVER FELT THAT THERE WAS A CONFLICT OR A PROB. SHE EXPLAINED THAT THERE WAS ONLY 722 FT BTWN RWYS, SO YOU REALLY HAVE TO STAY CLOSE TO YOUR CTRLINE. I AGREED AND EXPLAINED I WOULD MAKE A CONSCIENTIOUS EFFORT TO DO SO. 5 HRS LATER, I CALLED THE SFO TWR AGAIN TO CONFIRM THEY HAD NO PROB WITH OUR APCH THAT MORNING. A MAN ANSWERED AND SAID HE WAS SITTING IN FRONT OF 'THE LOGS' FOR THE MORNING AND SAW NOTHING ABOUT IT AND THAT IF THEY FELT ANY REASON THAT THERE WAS A PROB THEY WOULD HAVE AT LEAST LOGGED SOME TYPE OF COMMENT. WE KEPT VISUAL CONTACT AND SAFE DISTANCES FROM THE BOEING AT ALL TIMES. NOT ONCE WERE WE EVER NOT ESTABLISHED WELL WITHIN THE LOC FOR RWY 28R, AS WE USED THE LOC TO BACK UP OUR VISUAL WITH THE CTRLINE. THE 180 DEG HDG FOR BASE GIVEN TO US BY ATC SET US UP TO BE POINTED DIRECTLY AT THE BOEING PRIOR TO TURNING TOWARD FINAL. THIS MUST HAVE LOOKED SCARY FROM THE BOEING PAX POINT OF VIEW AND THE CREW ALSO. THE BOEING PLT'S COMMENTS ON TWR FREQ WERE NOT NECESSARY DURING AN APCH AND ONLY ADD DISTR AND CLUTTER TO THE RADIOS BEING USED IN SUCH A BUSY TERMINAL AREA. HOW COULD THIS HAVE BEEN AVOIDED? IMPROVED? ATC SHOULD STAGGER THE ARRS AS TO ALLOW ONE PLANE TO HAVE A VISUAL ON THE ACFT AHEAD AND HIS RWY. DILIGENCE BY BOTH ACFT TO MAINTAIN EXACT CTRLINE. SUPPLEMENTAL INFO FROM ACN 413931: ON VISUAL APCH TO SFO RWY 28L, WE WERE TOLD TFC WAS HIGH AT 3 O'CLOCK, DSNDING FOR RWY 28R AND HAD US IN SIGHT. FO SIGHTED THE TFC HIGH AT 3 O'CLOCK. 15 SECONDS LATER, WE RECEIVED AN RA FROM TCASII 'CLB.' WE NOW SIGHTED THE ACFT 'BELLY UP' TO US OVERSHOOTING THE FINAL LOC OF RWY 28R. WE MANEUVERED SLIGHTLY TO THE L. WE ANNOUNCED TO THE WESTWIND THAT HIS OVERSHOOT WAS NOT APPRECIATED. HE ACCELERATED PAST US. WE BOTH REMARKED THAT IF HE WAS DOING A VISUAL APCH WITH US IN SIGHT, HE HAD CLRLY LOST SIGHT OF US AT THIS POINT. HIS EXCESSIVE CLOSURE, SPD AND HIS CHOICE TO LOSE SIGHT OF US, IS THE CLASSIC CASE THAT MAY SOMEDAY RESULT IN A MIDAIR DURING SIMULTANEOUS VISUAL APCHS TO SFO RWY 28L/R. PLTS NEED TO HONOR THE CTRLINE DURING THESE APCHS, AVOID EXCESSIVE SPD, AND CLOSURE -- AND ALWAYS MAINTAIN A VISUAL ON THE ACFT YOU ARE FOLLOWING.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.