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A landing B737-300 stops on the high speed turnoff from runway 25L with its nose over the hold short line. Crew complaint of improper markings lights ATC procedure.
| Attributes | |
| ACN | 424742 |
| Time | |
| Date | 199901 |
| Day | Sat |
| Local Time Of Day | 1801 To 2400 |
| Place | |
| Locale Reference | airport : lax |
| State Reference | CA |
| Altitude | agl bound lower : 0 agl bound upper : 0 |
| Environment | |
| Flight Conditions | VMC |
| Light | Night |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Flight Phase | ground other : taxi landing other |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Aircraft 2 | |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Flight Phase | climbout : takeoff climbout : initial |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Person 1 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : first officer |
| Qualification | pilot : cfi |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 150 flight time total : 12000 flight time type : 400 |
| ASRS Report | 424742 |
| Person 2 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | conflict : ground less severe incursion : runway non adherence : clearance other anomaly other |
| Independent Detector | other controllera other flight crewa |
| Consequence | Other |
| Supplementary | |
| Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation |
| Situations | |
| ATC Facility | procedure or policy : unspecified |
| Airport | other physical facility |
Narrative:
During our landing rollout on runway 25L at lax, the tower requested we expedite clearing of the runway to accommodate landing traffic. Control xfer to captain was accomplished and he began to exit the runway on a high speed turnoff. As we exited, tower stated, 'hold short of runway 25R.' I acknowledged the transmission to hold short. A moment later, tower again stated to hold short of runway 25R. I once again acknowledged the instruction. It appeared to me the captain was not going to hold short of runway 25R. I then said to the captain, 'hold, this is it.' captain did at that time stop the aircraft short of runway 25R. I was unable to see the hold short taxiway markings, but I believe we were too close to the runway. It was about this time the tower told a departing aircraft on runway 25R to cancel their takeoff clearance. It seemed to me the aircraft did not comply with the request and I told the captain, 'I think he's still coming.' captain applied reverse thrust and backed us away from runway 25R. Aircraft on takeoff roll did complete its takeoff but was airborne before our position. Contributing factors: 1) very poor in-runway taxi-turnoff lighting system. Unlike ewr's, lax's lights are not visible from a B737-300 until one is practically upon them. Eye position to in-runway light 'sighting angle' must be increased, allowing earlier recognition of lights. 2) non existent (or not illuminated) yellow intersection lights are needed (again, as ewr has). 3) faded and worn out hold short taxi markings need to be replaced. Reflective paint or tape should be mandated -- at the very least, a new coat of paint should be applied. 4) tower instruction to expedite off the runway during landing rollout. 5) crew's desire to accommodate the tower's expedite request. 6) crew's unfamiliarity with lax. 7) crew fatigue. Early morning trip this very morning, followed by cle to san with a WX divert to lax.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: A LNDG B737-300 STOPS ON THE HIGH SPD TURNOFF FROM RWY 25L WITH ITS NOSE OVER THE HOLD SHORT LINE. CREW COMPLAINT OF IMPROPER MARKINGS LIGHTS ATC PROC.
Narrative: DURING OUR LNDG ROLLOUT ON RWY 25L AT LAX, THE TWR REQUESTED WE EXPEDITE CLRING OF THE RWY TO ACCOMMODATE LNDG TFC. CTL XFER TO CAPT WAS ACCOMPLISHED AND HE BEGAN TO EXIT THE RWY ON A HIGH SPD TURNOFF. AS WE EXITED, TWR STATED, 'HOLD SHORT OF RWY 25R.' I ACKNOWLEDGED THE XMISSION TO HOLD SHORT. A MOMENT LATER, TWR AGAIN STATED TO HOLD SHORT OF RWY 25R. I ONCE AGAIN ACKNOWLEDGED THE INSTRUCTION. IT APPEARED TO ME THE CAPT WAS NOT GOING TO HOLD SHORT OF RWY 25R. I THEN SAID TO THE CAPT, 'HOLD, THIS IS IT.' CAPT DID AT THAT TIME STOP THE ACFT SHORT OF RWY 25R. I WAS UNABLE TO SEE THE HOLD SHORT TXWY MARKINGS, BUT I BELIEVE WE WERE TOO CLOSE TO THE RWY. IT WAS ABOUT THIS TIME THE TWR TOLD A DEPARTING ACFT ON RWY 25R TO CANCEL THEIR TKOF CLRNC. IT SEEMED TO ME THE ACFT DID NOT COMPLY WITH THE REQUEST AND I TOLD THE CAPT, 'I THINK HE'S STILL COMING.' CAPT APPLIED REVERSE THRUST AND BACKED US AWAY FROM RWY 25R. ACFT ON TKOF ROLL DID COMPLETE ITS TKOF BUT WAS AIRBORNE BEFORE OUR POS. CONTRIBUTING FACTORS: 1) VERY POOR IN-RWY TAXI-TURNOFF LIGHTING SYS. UNLIKE EWR'S, LAX'S LIGHTS ARE NOT VISIBLE FROM A B737-300 UNTIL ONE IS PRACTICALLY UPON THEM. EYE POS TO IN-RWY LIGHT 'SIGHTING ANGLE' MUST BE INCREASED, ALLOWING EARLIER RECOGNITION OF LIGHTS. 2) NON EXISTENT (OR NOT ILLUMINATED) YELLOW INTXN LIGHTS ARE NEEDED (AGAIN, AS EWR HAS). 3) FADED AND WORN OUT HOLD SHORT TAXI MARKINGS NEED TO BE REPLACED. REFLECTIVE PAINT OR TAPE SHOULD BE MANDATED -- AT THE VERY LEAST, A NEW COAT OF PAINT SHOULD BE APPLIED. 4) TWR INSTRUCTION TO EXPEDITE OFF THE RWY DURING LNDG ROLLOUT. 5) CREW'S DESIRE TO ACCOMMODATE THE TWR'S EXPEDITE REQUEST. 6) CREW'S UNFAMILIARITY WITH LAX. 7) CREW FATIGUE. EARLY MORNING TRIP THIS VERY MORNING, FOLLOWED BY CLE TO SAN WITH A WX DIVERT TO LAX.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.