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A B737-300 flight crew gets distraction during a visual approach and overshoots their assigned altitude. Crew criticized the boi approach controller for his excessive vectoring of them behind a slower aircraft.
| Attributes | |
| ACN | 432950 |
| Time | |
| Date | 199903 |
| Day | Mon |
| Local Time Of Day | 1801 To 2400 |
| Place | |
| Locale Reference | navaid : boi.vortac |
| State Reference | ID |
| Altitude | msl bound lower : 5900 msl bound upper : 6500 |
| Environment | |
| Flight Conditions | VMC |
| Light | Night |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Controlling Facilities | tracon : boi.tracon |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | B737-300 |
| Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
| Navigation In Use | other other vortac |
| Flight Phase | descent : approach descent : intermediate altitude |
| Route In Use | approach : visual arrival : on vectors |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Aircraft 2 | |
| Controlling Facilities | tracon : boi.tracon |
| Make Model Name | Pilatus Britten-Norman Undifferentiated or Other Model |
| Flight Phase | descent : intermediate altitude descent : approach |
| Route In Use | approach : visual arrival : on vectors |
| Person 1 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : first officer |
| Qualification | pilot : atp |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 210 flight time total : 15000 flight time type : 5000 |
| ASRS Report | 432950 |
| Person 2 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
| Qualification | pilot : atp |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | altitude deviation : overshoot non adherence : clearance other anomaly |
| Independent Detector | atc equipment other atc equipment : radar other controllera other flight crewa other flight crewb |
| Resolutory Action | controller : issued advisory flight crew : returned to original clearance |
| Supplementary | |
| Problem Areas | ATC Human Performance Flight Crew Human Performance |
| Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
| Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation |
Narrative:
Flight from rno-boi. We were held at our cruise altitude of FL330 until 75 NM from boi by ATC, leaving us extremely high for the airport when handed off to boi approach. Within 10 mi of the airport, we were approaching normal profile for the runway and anticipating a visual approach clearance when boi approach advised us that we were following a single engine pilatius turboprop on 15 mi final. We were on a vector towards the airport and told to descend and maintain 6500 ft. At this point, the captain and I became concerned that we were very close to the airport to make a visual approach with a 6500 ft altitude restr. Additionally, it didn't make sense to us that the controller would sequence a faster airplane that was closer to the airport behind a slower aircraft. We also wondered aloud why he couldn't clear us both for a visual approach to separate parallel runways 28L&right since both aircraft had each other and the airport in sight. As these conversations were going on, the controller was issuing continuous speed and heading changes to us in order to put us behind the pilatius. In the face of a confounding situation and my desire to keep the aircraft in a manageable descent profile, we both lost track of our 6500 ft altitude assignment until we had descended 600 ft below it. Because of the continuous radio chatter, neither of us remember hearing the 1000 ft warning bell or the 300 ft overshoot bell. We both saw the overshoot at the same time and returned to 6500 ft. The controller saw the overshoot and reminded us of our altitude assignment. This is a common problem at many the airports we serve. The controllers are trying to fly our airplanes all the way to the ground with little apparent understanding of the energy management involved along with the approach profiles the company and the FAA train us to use. It is an uncomfortable feeling to be high and fast for an airport and not know if the controller is going to extend you out or dump you in close. Some communication would help, or better yet, when we have traffic at the airport, clear us for a visual approach. We can maintain a better profile and separation with what we see than what they see. Quit vectoring us to death!
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: A B737-300 FLC GETS DISTR DURING A VISUAL APCH AND OVERSHOOTS THEIR ASSIGNED ALT. CREW CRITICIZED THE BOI APCH CTLR FOR HIS EXCESSIVE VECTORING OF THEM BEHIND A SLOWER ACFT.
Narrative: FLT FROM RNO-BOI. WE WERE HELD AT OUR CRUISE ALT OF FL330 UNTIL 75 NM FROM BOI BY ATC, LEAVING US EXTREMELY HIGH FOR THE ARPT WHEN HANDED OFF TO BOI APCH. WITHIN 10 MI OF THE ARPT, WE WERE APCHING NORMAL PROFILE FOR THE RWY AND ANTICIPATING A VISUAL APCH CLRNC WHEN BOI APCH ADVISED US THAT WE WERE FOLLOWING A SINGLE ENG PILATIUS TURBOPROP ON 15 MI FINAL. WE WERE ON A VECTOR TOWARDS THE ARPT AND TOLD TO DSND AND MAINTAIN 6500 FT. AT THIS POINT, THE CAPT AND I BECAME CONCERNED THAT WE WERE VERY CLOSE TO THE ARPT TO MAKE A VISUAL APCH WITH A 6500 FT ALT RESTR. ADDITIONALLY, IT DIDN'T MAKE SENSE TO US THAT THE CTLR WOULD SEQUENCE A FASTER AIRPLANE THAT WAS CLOSER TO THE ARPT BEHIND A SLOWER ACFT. WE ALSO WONDERED ALOUD WHY HE COULDN'T CLR US BOTH FOR A VISUAL APCH TO SEPARATE PARALLEL RWYS 28L&R SINCE BOTH ACFT HAD EACH OTHER AND THE ARPT IN SIGHT. AS THESE CONVERSATIONS WERE GOING ON, THE CTLR WAS ISSUING CONTINUOUS SPD AND HDG CHANGES TO US IN ORDER TO PUT US BEHIND THE PILATIUS. IN THE FACE OF A CONFOUNDING SIT AND MY DESIRE TO KEEP THE ACFT IN A MANAGEABLE DSCNT PROFILE, WE BOTH LOST TRACK OF OUR 6500 FT ALT ASSIGNMENT UNTIL WE HAD DSNDED 600 FT BELOW IT. BECAUSE OF THE CONTINUOUS RADIO CHATTER, NEITHER OF US REMEMBER HEARING THE 1000 FT WARNING BELL OR THE 300 FT OVERSHOOT BELL. WE BOTH SAW THE OVERSHOOT AT THE SAME TIME AND RETURNED TO 6500 FT. THE CTLR SAW THE OVERSHOOT AND REMINDED US OF OUR ALT ASSIGNMENT. THIS IS A COMMON PROB AT MANY THE ARPTS WE SERVE. THE CTLRS ARE TRYING TO FLY OUR AIRPLANES ALL THE WAY TO THE GND WITH LITTLE APPARENT UNDERSTANDING OF THE ENERGY MGMNT INVOLVED ALONG WITH THE APCH PROFILES THE COMPANY AND THE FAA TRAIN US TO USE. IT IS AN UNCOMFORTABLE FEELING TO BE HIGH AND FAST FOR AN ARPT AND NOT KNOW IF THE CTLR IS GOING TO EXTEND YOU OUT OR DUMP YOU IN CLOSE. SOME COM WOULD HELP, OR BETTER YET, WHEN WE HAVE TFC AT THE ARPT, CLR US FOR A VISUAL APCH. WE CAN MAINTAIN A BETTER PROFILE AND SEPARATION WITH WHAT WE SEE THAN WHAT THEY SEE. QUIT VECTORING US TO DEATH!
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.