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B727 lands cvg after restabilizing approach and speed after late turn on by saturated approach controller and dispute with same.
| Attributes | |
| ACN | 438250 |
| Time | |
| Date | 199905 |
| Day | Tue |
| Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
| Place | |
| Locale Reference | airport : cvg.airport |
| State Reference | OH |
| Altitude | msl single value : 7000 |
| Environment | |
| Flight Conditions | VMC |
| Light | Daylight |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Controlling Facilities | tracon : cvg.tracon |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | B727 Undifferentiated or Other Model |
| Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
| Flight Phase | descent : approach |
| Route In Use | approach : traffic pattern approach : visual approach : instrument precision arrival : on vectors |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Person 1 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
| Qualification | pilot : flight engineer pilot : atp |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 180 flight time total : 11000 flight time type : 7000 |
| ASRS Report | 438250 |
| Person 2 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : first officer |
| Qualification | pilot : multi engine pilot : instrument pilot : commercial |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | non adherence : clearance non adherence : published procedure other anomaly other anomaly other spatial deviation |
| Independent Detector | aircraft equipment other aircraft equipment : 928 other controllera other flight crewa |
| Resolutory Action | controller : issued new clearance |
| Consequence | faa : reviewed incident with flight crew |
| Supplementary | |
| Problem Areas | Flight Crew Human Performance ATC Human Performance |
| Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
Narrative:
On a 270 degree heading (90 degrees to final approach course) and approach was busy with other traffic. Cleared us down to 4000 ft. Read back clearance and asked if we were going to be vectored through final approach course. He cleared us for a visual which we overshot due to close proximity of runway centerline and intercept angle. Being high we picked up descent rate to get established on GS. Controller asked what our speed was. Told him 220 KTS (210 KTS assigned while on vectors and prior to visual for which no limit was given). He told us we were supposed to be at 170 KTS. Then he said we must have been so concerned about going through runway centerline (and into approach corridor for runway 18R he seemed to forget) that we missed clearance. All 3 in cockpit agreed we hadn't missed it and told controller. He persisted over the radio we had been given clearance. Bottom line: this guy got busy controling other aircraft and gave us a late intercept and no speed call, but tried to blame us.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: B727 LANDS CVG AFTER RESTABILIZING APCH AND SPD AFTER LATE TURN ON BY SATURATED APCH CTLR AND DISPUTE WITH SAME.
Narrative: ON A 270 DEG HDG (90 DEGS TO FINAL APCH COURSE) AND APCH WAS BUSY WITH OTHER TFC. CLRED US DOWN TO 4000 FT. READ BACK CLRNC AND ASKED IF WE WERE GOING TO BE VECTORED THROUGH FINAL APCH COURSE. HE CLRED US FOR A VISUAL WHICH WE OVERSHOT DUE TO CLOSE PROX OF RWY CTRLINE AND INTERCEPT ANGLE. BEING HIGH WE PICKED UP DSCNT RATE TO GET ESTABLISHED ON GS. CTLR ASKED WHAT OUR SPD WAS. TOLD HIM 220 KTS (210 KTS ASSIGNED WHILE ON VECTORS AND PRIOR TO VISUAL FOR WHICH NO LIMIT WAS GIVEN). HE TOLD US WE WERE SUPPOSED TO BE AT 170 KTS. THEN HE SAID WE MUST HAVE BEEN SO CONCERNED ABOUT GOING THROUGH RWY CTRLINE (AND INTO APCH CORRIDOR FOR RWY 18R HE SEEMED TO FORGET) THAT WE MISSED CLRNC. ALL 3 IN COCKPIT AGREED WE HADN'T MISSED IT AND TOLD CTLR. HE PERSISTED OVER THE RADIO WE HAD BEEN GIVEN CLRNC. BOTTOM LINE: THIS GUY GOT BUSY CTLING OTHER ACFT AND GAVE US A LATE INTERCEPT AND NO SPD CALL, BUT TRIED TO BLAME US.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.