 |
37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
A B767-300 turns to the outbound course after passing cedes and the controller questions their heading, expecting them to turn into the holding pattern at cedes.
| Attributes | |
| ACN | 438398 |
| Time | |
| Date | 199905 |
| Day | Wed |
| Local Time Of Day | 1801 To 2400 |
| Place | |
| Locale Reference | navaid : mod.vor |
| State Reference | CA |
| Altitude | msl single value : 17000 |
| Environment | |
| Flight Conditions | VMC |
| Light | Night |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Controlling Facilities | artcc : zoa.artcc |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | B767-300 and 300 ER |
| Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
| Navigation In Use | other other vortac |
| Flight Phase | descent : approach descent : intermediate altitude |
| Route In Use | arrival star : mod 2 |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Person 1 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : first officer |
| Qualification | pilot : multi engine pilot : instrument pilot : commercial pilot : atp |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 100 flight time total : 6000 flight time type : 50 |
| ASRS Report | 438398 |
| Person 2 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
| Qualification | pilot : atp pilot : multi engine pilot : instrument pilot : flight engineer pilot : commercial |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 200 flight time total : 13500 flight time type : 2000 |
| ASRS Report | 438571 |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | non adherence : clearance non adherence : published procedure other spatial deviation |
| Independent Detector | other controllera |
| Resolutory Action | controller : issued advisory controller : issued new clearance |
| Supplementary | |
| Problem Areas | ATC Human Performance Flight Crew Human Performance |
| Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
Narrative:
Cleared to hold at cedes as published. 5 mi from cedes, ZOA said 'air carrier proceed on the outbound heading.' we flew to cedes and flew the outbound heading on the arrival. About 5 mi after cedes, oakland asked us if we were in a left turn. Captain replied 'we are proceeding on the outbound heading as cleared.' oakland issued a left turn to 090 degrees. I believe oakland wanted us to turn left early to join the outbound holding pattern leg. However, we had not yet entered holding because we had not crossed cedes. I don't know the proper phraseology in the controller handbook, but the terminology used was misinterped, apparently.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: A B767-300 TURNS TO THE OUTBOUND COURSE AFTER PASSING CEDES AND THE CTLR QUESTIONS THEIR HDG, EXPECTING THEM TO TURN INTO THE HOLDING PATTERN AT CEDES.
Narrative: CLRED TO HOLD AT CEDES AS PUBLISHED. 5 MI FROM CEDES, ZOA SAID 'ACR PROCEED ON THE OUTBOUND HDG.' WE FLEW TO CEDES AND FLEW THE OUTBOUND HDG ON THE ARR. ABOUT 5 MI AFTER CEDES, OAKLAND ASKED US IF WE WERE IN A L TURN. CAPT REPLIED 'WE ARE PROCEEDING ON THE OUTBOUND HDG AS CLRED.' OAKLAND ISSUED A L TURN TO 090 DEGS. I BELIEVE OAKLAND WANTED US TO TURN L EARLY TO JOIN THE OUTBOUND HOLDING PATTERN LEG. HOWEVER, WE HAD NOT YET ENTERED HOLDING BECAUSE WE HAD NOT CROSSED CEDES. I DON'T KNOW THE PROPER PHRASEOLOGY IN THE CTLR HANDBOOK, BUT THE TERMINOLOGY USED WAS MISINTERPED, APPARENTLY.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.