37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 453328 |
Time | |
Date | 199910 |
Day | Fri |
Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : sfo.airport |
State Reference | CA |
Altitude | msl single value : 4000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : o90.tracon |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | B757-200 |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Navigation In Use | other |
Flight Phase | descent : approach |
Route In Use | approach other arrival : on vectors |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Aircraft 2 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : o90.tracon |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | B737 Undifferentiated or Other Model |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Flight Phase | descent : approach |
Route In Use | arrival : on vectors |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : student pilot : atp pilot : commercial pilot : flight engineer pilot : instrument pilot : multi engine |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 200 flight time total : 10000 flight time type : 1500 |
ASRS Report | 453328 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : commercial pilot : instrument pilot : multi engine |
Events | |
Anomaly | conflict : airborne less severe non adherence : published procedure |
Independent Detector | other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | controller : issued new clearance controller : separated traffic flight crew : executed go around |
Supplementary | |
Problem Areas | Flight Crew Human Performance ATC Human Performance Aircraft Airport |
Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
Situations | |
ATC Facility | procedure or policy : o90.tracon |
Narrative:
I have been flying in the bay area for the last 20 yrs and have seen a degradation in the safety of visuals being issued by bay approach. ATC is pressuring pilots into accepting visuals on other aircraft in the interest of airport capacity enhancement at the expense of safety. Bay used to let us positively identify aircraft so there was no doubt as to the correct airplane to follow. We are now pushed hard into calling the other traffic in order to relieve ATC from separation and to pack more into the same space. If we don't call visual on the parallel traffic when bay approach feels it is time, then we are penalized by hanging us up at 4000 ft toward brijj. This jeopardizes stabilized approachs. Bay also will tell us to turn to 310 degrees and climb to 3000 ft -- a go around because a visual on the other aircraft was not called at their convenience. I don't think it's unreasonable to be certain of the airplane in question before calling the visual. This is usually 2-3 mi from brijj. In today's environment, this appears to be not soon enough for bay approach. My flight X was coming in from ord, arriving at night, on the FMS visual to runway 28R. The parallel traffic we were to follow was over the san mateo hills and was being masked by the lights of san mateo and the race track. I could not positively identify this airplane and was given essentially an ultimatum. Accept the visual or go around. We were held up at 4000 ft until close in enough to accurately call the traffic. Why can't ATC provide separation for us on these join-up maneuvers so as to allow the pilots to stabilize their approachs without having to worry about maintaining separation from a wing light in the middle of city lights? Another 2 days later, I was coming in from boston during the day and again was pushed into readily accepting the parallel traffic that we were to follow. This time the B737 (aircraft Y) was below and behind us with little or no chance of maintaining continuous visual contact. Bay said the traffic was ahead of us on radar and was faster. I disagreed with their assessment and was told to climb to 4000 ft and turn right to 310 degrees -- a go around. It's obvious that bay approach is not going to allow anymore positive idents on traffic. They want immediate acceptance of the visual on the lead parallel traffic or go around. I am concerned that someone is going to join up with the wrong aircraft in an effort to accommodate ATC. Let's stop the pushing and get back to safely acquiring visuals to the sfo airport.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: B757 PIC CONCERNED WITH PERCEIVED DEGRADATION OF O90 CTL SVC, SPECIFICALLY AS APPLIED TO VISUAL APCH PROCS.
Narrative: I HAVE BEEN FLYING IN THE BAY AREA FOR THE LAST 20 YRS AND HAVE SEEN A DEGRADATION IN THE SAFETY OF VISUALS BEING ISSUED BY BAY APCH. ATC IS PRESSURING PLTS INTO ACCEPTING VISUALS ON OTHER ACFT IN THE INTEREST OF ARPT CAPACITY ENHANCEMENT AT THE EXPENSE OF SAFETY. BAY USED TO LET US POSITIVELY IDENT ACFT SO THERE WAS NO DOUBT AS TO THE CORRECT AIRPLANE TO FOLLOW. WE ARE NOW PUSHED HARD INTO CALLING THE OTHER TFC IN ORDER TO RELIEVE ATC FROM SEPARATION AND TO PACK MORE INTO THE SAME SPACE. IF WE DON'T CALL VISUAL ON THE PARALLEL TFC WHEN BAY APCH FEELS IT IS TIME, THEN WE ARE PENALIZED BY HANGING US UP AT 4000 FT TOWARD BRIJJ. THIS JEOPARDIZES STABILIZED APCHS. BAY ALSO WILL TELL US TO TURN TO 310 DEGS AND CLB TO 3000 FT -- A GAR BECAUSE A VISUAL ON THE OTHER ACFT WAS NOT CALLED AT THEIR CONVENIENCE. I DON'T THINK IT'S UNREASONABLE TO BE CERTAIN OF THE AIRPLANE IN QUESTION BEFORE CALLING THE VISUAL. THIS IS USUALLY 2-3 MI FROM BRIJJ. IN TODAY'S ENVIRONMENT, THIS APPEARS TO BE NOT SOON ENOUGH FOR BAY APCH. MY FLT X WAS COMING IN FROM ORD, ARRIVING AT NIGHT, ON THE FMS VISUAL TO RWY 28R. THE PARALLEL TFC WE WERE TO FOLLOW WAS OVER THE SAN MATEO HILLS AND WAS BEING MASKED BY THE LIGHTS OF SAN MATEO AND THE RACE TRACK. I COULD NOT POSITIVELY IDENT THIS AIRPLANE AND WAS GIVEN ESSENTIALLY AN ULTIMATUM. ACCEPT THE VISUAL OR GAR. WE WERE HELD UP AT 4000 FT UNTIL CLOSE IN ENOUGH TO ACCURATELY CALL THE TFC. WHY CAN'T ATC PROVIDE SEPARATION FOR US ON THESE JOIN-UP MANEUVERS SO AS TO ALLOW THE PLTS TO STABILIZE THEIR APCHS WITHOUT HAVING TO WORRY ABOUT MAINTAINING SEPARATION FROM A WING LIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF CITY LIGHTS? ANOTHER 2 DAYS LATER, I WAS COMING IN FROM BOSTON DURING THE DAY AND AGAIN WAS PUSHED INTO READILY ACCEPTING THE PARALLEL TFC THAT WE WERE TO FOLLOW. THIS TIME THE B737 (ACFT Y) WAS BELOW AND BEHIND US WITH LITTLE OR NO CHANCE OF MAINTAINING CONTINUOUS VISUAL CONTACT. BAY SAID THE TFC WAS AHEAD OF US ON RADAR AND WAS FASTER. I DISAGREED WITH THEIR ASSESSMENT AND WAS TOLD TO CLB TO 4000 FT AND TURN R TO 310 DEGS -- A GAR. IT'S OBVIOUS THAT BAY APCH IS NOT GOING TO ALLOW ANYMORE POSITIVE IDENTS ON TFC. THEY WANT IMMEDIATE ACCEPTANCE OF THE VISUAL ON THE LEAD PARALLEL TFC OR GAR. I AM CONCERNED THAT SOMEONE IS GOING TO JOIN UP WITH THE WRONG ACFT IN AN EFFORT TO ACCOMMODATE ATC. LET'S STOP THE PUSHING AND GET BACK TO SAFELY ACQUIRING VISUALS TO THE SFO ARPT.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.