37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 454650 |
Time | |
Date | 199911 |
Day | Sun |
Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : cyul.airport |
State Reference | PQ |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 2000 msl bound upper : 3000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | IMC |
Weather Elements | Rain |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Regional Jet CL65, Undifferentiated or Other Model |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Navigation In Use | ils localizer & glide slope : 24r other |
Flight Phase | descent : approach descent : intermediate altitude |
Route In Use | approach : instrument precision arrival star : franx 3 |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 240 flight time total : 12000 flight time type : 2500 |
ASRS Report | 454650 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : multi engine pilot : commercial pilot : cfi pilot : instrument |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 160 flight time total : 1100 flight time type : 400 |
ASRS Report | 454748 |
Events | |
Anomaly | aircraft equipment problem : critical altitude deviation : excursion from assigned altitude non adherence : company policies non adherence : far non adherence : clearance |
Independent Detector | atc equipment other atc equipment : altitude radar other controllera |
Resolutory Action | controller : provided flight assist controller : issued alert controller : issued new clearance |
Consequence | faa : reviewed incident with flight crew |
Supplementary | |
Problem Areas | Flight Crew Human Performance |
Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation |
Narrative:
While being vectored for the approach to runway 24R at montreal, canada, after the franx 3 arrival, approach cleared us to descend to 3000 ft. We found ourselves on an intercept for the final approach course at 3000 ft when approach said something to the effect 'you are at 2000 ft and that's ok, but the noise abatement procedure for that area is 3000 ft and that's what I cleared you to.' sure that we weren't in error, I let them know that all 3 altimeters showed us level at 3000 ft. The controller said he showed 2000 ft and the altimeter setting at 29.32. To my horror we had 30.32. We were 1000 ft low where the MSA is 2600 ft. The self examination immediately kicked in. I had been so used to much higher pressure for so long as the north american continent had been under the influence of continual high pressure with resulting mild WX. I had briefly wondered how the WX in montreal could be 2 1/2 mi visibility with drizzle and rain with such a high pressure setting but I did not verbalize this thought to my first officer. The real contributor to this potential disaster, however, was my habit of writing the altimeter setting using only the last 2 digits when listening to the ATIS, eg, .32 -- that is no longer a habit or practice. After we got on the ground, I asked my first officer to kick me, but he refused.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: CL65 INTO CYUL WITH WRONG ALTIMETER SETTING IS 1000 FT LOWER THAN ALTIMETER READS.
Narrative: WHILE BEING VECTORED FOR THE APCH TO RWY 24R AT MONTREAL, CANADA, AFTER THE FRANX 3 ARR, APCH CLRED US TO DSND TO 3000 FT. WE FOUND OURSELVES ON AN INTERCEPT FOR THE FINAL APCH COURSE AT 3000 FT WHEN APCH SAID SOMETHING TO THE EFFECT 'YOU ARE AT 2000 FT AND THAT'S OK, BUT THE NOISE ABATEMENT PROC FOR THAT AREA IS 3000 FT AND THAT'S WHAT I CLRED YOU TO.' SURE THAT WE WEREN'T IN ERROR, I LET THEM KNOW THAT ALL 3 ALTIMETERS SHOWED US LEVEL AT 3000 FT. THE CTLR SAID HE SHOWED 2000 FT AND THE ALTIMETER SETTING AT 29.32. TO MY HORROR WE HAD 30.32. WE WERE 1000 FT LOW WHERE THE MSA IS 2600 FT. THE SELF EXAMINATION IMMEDIATELY KICKED IN. I HAD BEEN SO USED TO MUCH HIGHER PRESSURE FOR SO LONG AS THE NORTH AMERICAN CONTINENT HAD BEEN UNDER THE INFLUENCE OF CONTINUAL HIGH PRESSURE WITH RESULTING MILD WX. I HAD BRIEFLY WONDERED HOW THE WX IN MONTREAL COULD BE 2 1/2 MI VISIBILITY WITH DRIZZLE AND RAIN WITH SUCH A HIGH PRESSURE SETTING BUT I DID NOT VERBALIZE THIS THOUGHT TO MY FO. THE REAL CONTRIBUTOR TO THIS POTENTIAL DISASTER, HOWEVER, WAS MY HABIT OF WRITING THE ALTIMETER SETTING USING ONLY THE LAST 2 DIGITS WHEN LISTENING TO THE ATIS, EG, .32 -- THAT IS NO LONGER A HABIT OR PRACTICE. AFTER WE GOT ON THE GND, I ASKED MY FO TO KICK ME, BUT HE REFUSED.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.