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|
Attributes | |
ACN | 458438 |
Time | |
Date | 199912 |
Day | Sun |
Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : san.airport |
State Reference | CA |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 0 msl bound upper : 12000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : sct.tracon tower : san.tower |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | B737 Undifferentiated or Other Model |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Flight Phase | descent : vacating altitude landing : roll |
Route In Use | approach : visual arrival : on vectors |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 240 flight time total : 11000 flight time type : 4500 |
ASRS Report | 458438 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Events | |
Anomaly | non adherence : company policies non adherence : far non adherence : published procedure other anomaly other anomaly |
Independent Detector | other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | none taken : anomaly accepted |
Consequence | other |
Supplementary | |
Problem Areas | Flight Crew Human Performance |
Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation |
Narrative:
Captain's leg, on descent, at approximately 12000 ft, I advised captain that I was going to call company for gate assignment. I was still monitoring ATC and heard captain advise approach control 'airport in sight.' we were then cleared for visual approach. Captain requested 'we would like to keep our speed up.' approach replied, 'you're #1, speed your discretion.' by this time we were just passing through 10000 ft and I advised captain of our high speed (328 KTS) below 10000 ft. He replied that controller had given us 'speed our discretion.' I informed him that controller cannot legally waive speeds below 10000 ft except in houston, tx, class B airspace or in emergency. By this time we were at 7000 ft and 320 KTS. At this point I told captain 'I am extremely uncomfortable about this situation, we need to slow immediately and research and discuss this on the ground.' he then slowed, but then we were very high for approach and had to maintain a very high sink rate to land within the last part of the touchdown zone. At 200 ft AGL I recommended a go around due to high sink rate, speed and the obvious fact that it would be a long landing and GPWS warnings. We landed approximately 3000 ft down the runway. Although I tried to implement effective CRM, I should have been even more aggressive about demanding the aircraft be flown within far and fom guidelines. As first officer's, we are accustomed to having the captain make sure we are within guidelines.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: A B737 CAPT EXCEEDS 300 KTS UNDER 10000 FT AGAINST THE WISHES OF HIS FO E OF SAN, CA.
Narrative: CAPT'S LEG, ON DSCNT, AT APPROX 12000 FT, I ADVISED CAPT THAT I WAS GOING TO CALL COMPANY FOR GATE ASSIGNMENT. I WAS STILL MONITORING ATC AND HEARD CAPT ADVISE APCH CTL 'ARPT IN SIGHT.' WE WERE THEN CLRED FOR VISUAL APCH. CAPT REQUESTED 'WE WOULD LIKE TO KEEP OUR SPD UP.' APCH REPLIED, 'YOU'RE #1, SPD YOUR DISCRETION.' BY THIS TIME WE WERE JUST PASSING THROUGH 10000 FT AND I ADVISED CAPT OF OUR HIGH SPD (328 KTS) BELOW 10000 FT. HE REPLIED THAT CTLR HAD GIVEN US 'SPD OUR DISCRETION.' I INFORMED HIM THAT CTLR CANNOT LEGALLY WAIVE SPDS BELOW 10000 FT EXCEPT IN HOUSTON, TX, CLASS B AIRSPACE OR IN EMER. BY THIS TIME WE WERE AT 7000 FT AND 320 KTS. AT THIS POINT I TOLD CAPT 'I AM EXTREMELY UNCOMFORTABLE ABOUT THIS SIT, WE NEED TO SLOW IMMEDIATELY AND RESEARCH AND DISCUSS THIS ON THE GND.' HE THEN SLOWED, BUT THEN WE WERE VERY HIGH FOR APCH AND HAD TO MAINTAIN A VERY HIGH SINK RATE TO LAND WITHIN THE LAST PART OF THE TOUCHDOWN ZONE. AT 200 FT AGL I RECOMMENDED A GAR DUE TO HIGH SINK RATE, SPD AND THE OBVIOUS FACT THAT IT WOULD BE A LONG LNDG AND GPWS WARNINGS. WE LANDED APPROX 3000 FT DOWN THE RWY. ALTHOUGH I TRIED TO IMPLEMENT EFFECTIVE CRM, I SHOULD HAVE BEEN EVEN MORE AGGRESSIVE ABOUT DEMANDING THE ACFT BE FLOWN WITHIN FAR AND FOM GUIDELINES. AS FO'S, WE ARE ACCUSTOMED TO HAVING THE CAPT MAKE SURE WE ARE WITHIN GUIDELINES.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.