37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 460295 |
Time | |
Date | 200001 |
Day | Fri |
Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : sbn.airport |
State Reference | IN |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 3000 msl bound upper : 5000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : sbn.tracon tower : sbn.tower |
Operator | general aviation : corporate |
Make Model Name | IAI1125 (Astra) |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 91 |
Flight Phase | climbout : intermediate altitude |
Route In Use | departure : on vectors |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : corporate |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : multi engine pilot : atp pilot : cfi |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 100 flight time total : 11400 flight time type : 60 |
ASRS Report | 460295 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : corporate |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : atp pilot : multi engine pilot : cfi |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 72 flight time total : 4939 flight time type : 648 |
ASRS Report | 460298 |
Events | |
Anomaly | altitude deviation : overshoot non adherence : clearance other anomaly other |
Independent Detector | atc equipment other atc equipment : radar other controllera other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | flight crew : returned to assigned altitude |
Consequence | faa : reviewed incident with flight crew |
Supplementary | |
Problem Areas | Flight Crew Human Performance Environmental Factor ATC Human Performance |
Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation |
Narrative:
We were cleared for an immediate takeoff to maintain 3000 ft and fly a heading of 250 degrees. After departure we were told to contact departure control on 132.05. The copilot said he tried to contact departure by saying we were out of 1400 ft for 5000 ft. I then confirmed we were cleared to 5000 ft by observing 5000 ft in the asel window. I then heard the copilot try and contact departure again with, I think, out of 2500 ft for 5000 ft. At that time I asked if we had been cleared to 5000 ft. He said he had not yet been able to contact departure. I then immediately started a descent to 3000 ft, and asked if he had made contact yet. He said he was hearing other xmissions, but not yet a reply to ours. I then made several attempts myself, with no avail. I then was able to contact sbn tower to confirm 132.05 was the correct frequency, and that we were unable to make contact with departure control. Sbn tower replied with they were there and to try and contact them again. My next attempt was successful, letting departure know we were at 3000 ft and on a heading of 250 degrees. Departure then cleared us to 5000 ft and a heading of 330 degrees. Shortly after that, departure gave us a phone number, and told us to contact them at our destination. I think there were a number of contributing factors to this deviation from altitude. Was 3000 ft or 5000 ft in the asel window before takeoff? I remember seeing 3000 ft during our taxi. Or was 5000 ft put in the asel window after takeoff? Did sbn tower clear us to 5000 ft or was there a clearance given to us or another aircraft after takeoff to maintain 5000 ft? If ATC had corrected our altitude when we said we were out of 1400 ft for 5000 ft after takeoff, 3000 ft would have been maintained. I feel strongly that a maximum coordinated effort is mandatory by both ATC and the aircraft they control, especially if you consider the performance of jet aircraft. Communication should be given a high priority! In conclusion, I feel the following to be true. I think we were cleared to maintain 5000 ft by either sbn tower or departure control. I think our radios were on the correct frequency and transmitting normally. I think the heart of the communication problem was that departure control did not know we were coming. Supplemental information from acn 460298: he then asked if we were cleared to 5000 ft, and I told him that 5000 ft was selected in the altitude window. He asked me what the clearance was, and I looked and saw that our clearance given to us on the ground at sbn had an altitude of 3000 ft. He immediately brought the power back to idle and expedited a descent to 3000 ft. When I got into the cockpit, the captain had already received the clearance from a person at the sbn airport and gave me most of the elements of the clearance, our route, the transponder code which was already set in the transponder, our initial fix on our flight plan which was already loaded into the FMS, and he verified that the appropriate airspds were already set for V1, vr, and V2 were set on both airspeed indicators. He also indicated that the clearance was written down on a pad on my right side panel of the cockpit. Having gotten most of the elements of the clearance from him verbally, I failed to read it myself and verify the assigned altitude. I should not have assumed anything, rather it should have been verified by me personally. Every takeoff and departure demands my full attention.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: AN ASTRA 1125 FLC OVERSHOOTS THEIR ASSIGNED ALT WHEN THE PLTS USE THE ALT ALERT ALT AS A MEANS OF VERIFYING THEIR CLRNC ALT SW OF SBN, IN. THE ACFT WAS NORAC FOR A PERIOD OF TIME WITH DEP CTLR FROM 1400 FT TO 5000 FT.
Narrative: WE WERE CLRED FOR AN IMMEDIATE TKOF TO MAINTAIN 3000 FT AND FLY A HDG OF 250 DEGS. AFTER DEP WE WERE TOLD TO CONTACT DEP CTL ON 132.05. THE COPLT SAID HE TRIED TO CONTACT DEP BY SAYING WE WERE OUT OF 1400 FT FOR 5000 FT. I THEN CONFIRMED WE WERE CLRED TO 5000 FT BY OBSERVING 5000 FT IN THE ASEL WINDOW. I THEN HEARD THE COPLT TRY AND CONTACT DEP AGAIN WITH, I THINK, OUT OF 2500 FT FOR 5000 FT. AT THAT TIME I ASKED IF WE HAD BEEN CLRED TO 5000 FT. HE SAID HE HAD NOT YET BEEN ABLE TO CONTACT DEP. I THEN IMMEDIATELY STARTED A DSCNT TO 3000 FT, AND ASKED IF HE HAD MADE CONTACT YET. HE SAID HE WAS HEARING OTHER XMISSIONS, BUT NOT YET A REPLY TO OURS. I THEN MADE SEVERAL ATTEMPTS MYSELF, WITH NO AVAIL. I THEN WAS ABLE TO CONTACT SBN TWR TO CONFIRM 132.05 WAS THE CORRECT FREQ, AND THAT WE WERE UNABLE TO MAKE CONTACT WITH DEP CTL. SBN TWR REPLIED WITH THEY WERE THERE AND TO TRY AND CONTACT THEM AGAIN. MY NEXT ATTEMPT WAS SUCCESSFUL, LETTING DEP KNOW WE WERE AT 3000 FT AND ON A HDG OF 250 DEGS. DEP THEN CLRED US TO 5000 FT AND A HDG OF 330 DEGS. SHORTLY AFTER THAT, DEP GAVE US A PHONE NUMBER, AND TOLD US TO CONTACT THEM AT OUR DEST. I THINK THERE WERE A NUMBER OF CONTRIBUTING FACTORS TO THIS DEV FROM ALT. WAS 3000 FT OR 5000 FT IN THE ASEL WINDOW BEFORE TKOF? I REMEMBER SEEING 3000 FT DURING OUR TAXI. OR WAS 5000 FT PUT IN THE ASEL WINDOW AFTER TKOF? DID SBN TWR CLR US TO 5000 FT OR WAS THERE A CLRNC GIVEN TO US OR ANOTHER ACFT AFTER TKOF TO MAINTAIN 5000 FT? IF ATC HAD CORRECTED OUR ALT WHEN WE SAID WE WERE OUT OF 1400 FT FOR 5000 FT AFTER TKOF, 3000 FT WOULD HAVE BEEN MAINTAINED. I FEEL STRONGLY THAT A MAX COORDINATED EFFORT IS MANDATORY BY BOTH ATC AND THE ACFT THEY CTL, ESPECIALLY IF YOU CONSIDER THE PERFORMANCE OF JET ACFT. COM SHOULD BE GIVEN A HIGH PRIORITY! IN CONCLUSION, I FEEL THE FOLLOWING TO BE TRUE. I THINK WE WERE CLRED TO MAINTAIN 5000 FT BY EITHER SBN TWR OR DEP CTL. I THINK OUR RADIOS WERE ON THE CORRECT FREQ AND XMITTING NORMALLY. I THINK THE HEART OF THE COM PROB WAS THAT DEP CTL DID NOT KNOW WE WERE COMING. SUPPLEMENTAL INFO FROM ACN 460298: HE THEN ASKED IF WE WERE CLRED TO 5000 FT, AND I TOLD HIM THAT 5000 FT WAS SELECTED IN THE ALT WINDOW. HE ASKED ME WHAT THE CLRNC WAS, AND I LOOKED AND SAW THAT OUR CLRNC GIVEN TO US ON THE GND AT SBN HAD AN ALT OF 3000 FT. HE IMMEDIATELY BROUGHT THE PWR BACK TO IDLE AND EXPEDITED A DSCNT TO 3000 FT. WHEN I GOT INTO THE COCKPIT, THE CAPT HAD ALREADY RECEIVED THE CLRNC FROM A PERSON AT THE SBN ARPT AND GAVE ME MOST OF THE ELEMENTS OF THE CLRNC, OUR RTE, THE XPONDER CODE WHICH WAS ALREADY SET IN THE XPONDER, OUR INITIAL FIX ON OUR FLT PLAN WHICH WAS ALREADY LOADED INTO THE FMS, AND HE VERIFIED THAT THE APPROPRIATE AIRSPDS WERE ALREADY SET FOR V1, VR, AND V2 WERE SET ON BOTH AIRSPD INDICATORS. HE ALSO INDICATED THAT THE CLRNC WAS WRITTEN DOWN ON A PAD ON MY R SIDE PANEL OF THE COCKPIT. HAVING GOTTEN MOST OF THE ELEMENTS OF THE CLRNC FROM HIM VERBALLY, I FAILED TO READ IT MYSELF AND VERIFY THE ASSIGNED ALT. I SHOULD NOT HAVE ASSUMED ANYTHING, RATHER IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN VERIFIED BY ME PERSONALLY. EVERY TKOF AND DEP DEMANDS MY FULL ATTN.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.