A B737 crew on the sadde arrival, were unable to comply with a crossing restr at symon.

Attributes
ACN	463264
Time
Date	200002
Day	Fri
Local Time Of Day	0601 To 1200
Place
Locale Reference	intersection : symon
State Reference	CA
Altitude	msl bound lower : 12000 msl bound upper : 24000
Environment
Flight Conditions	VMC
Light	Daylight
Aircraft 1
Controlling Facilities	tracon : sct.tracon
Operator	common carrier : air carrier
Make Model Name	B737 Undifferentiated or Other Model
Operating Under FAR Part	Part 121
Navigation In Use	other
Flight Phase	descent : approach
Route In Use	arrival star : sadde
Flight Plan	IFR
Person 1
Affiliation	company : air carrier
Function	flight crew : first officer
Qualification	pilot : atp
Experience	flight time last 90 days : 270 flight time total : 8000 flight time type : 3000
ASRS Report	463264
Person 2
Affiliation	company : air carrier
Function	flight crew : captain oversight : pic
Qualification	pilot : atp
Events
Anomaly	altitude deviation : crossing restriction not met other anomaly other
Independent Detector	other controllera other flight crewa other flight crewb
Supplementary
Problem Areas	ATC Human Performance Flight Crew Human Performance
Primary Problem	ATC Human Performance

Narrative:

During the sadde arrival to lax from smf, we were unable to comply with the 12000 ft crossing restr at symon. We were held high by ZLA (FL330 36 DME from symon) and then at FL240 12 DME from symon we were asked by ATC if we would make the symon restr. We replied that we were unable, and then ATC turned us off the arrival. Although the restr is printed clearly on the STAR, ATC had us high from the very start. Although we found that unusual for lax, we figured they had their reasons for it. At no time did we say we would be able to make the crossing restr, and weren't even asked to until it was too late.

Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: A B737 CREW ON THE SADDE ARR, WERE UNABLE TO COMPLY WITH A XING RESTR AT SYMON.

Narrative: DURING THE SADDE ARR TO LAX FROM SMF, WE WERE UNABLE TO COMPLY WITH THE 12000 FT XING RESTR AT SYMON. WE WERE HELD HIGH BY ZLA (FL330 36 DME FROM SYMON) AND THEN AT FL240 12 DME FROM SYMON WE WERE ASKED BY ATC IF WE WOULD MAKE THE SYMON RESTR. WE REPLIED THAT WE WERE UNABLE, AND THEN ATC TURNED US OFF THE ARR. ALTHOUGH THE RESTR IS PRINTED CLRLY ON THE STAR, ATC HAD US HIGH FROM THE VERY START. ALTHOUGH WE FOUND THAT UNUSUAL FOR LAX, WE FIGURED THEY HAD THEIR REASONS FOR IT. AT NO TIME DID WE SAY WE WOULD BE ABLE TO MAKE THE XING RESTR, AND WEREN'T EVEN ASKED TO UNTIL IT WAS TOO LATE.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.