37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 477876 |
Time | |
Date | 200006 |
Day | Mon |
Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
Place | |
State Reference | LA |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 14200 msl bound upper : 16000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Weather Elements | Thunderstorm |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | B727-200 |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Flight Phase | descent : intermediate altitude |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : private pilot : multi engine pilot : instrument pilot : flight engineer pilot : commercial pilot : cfi pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 200 flight time total : 11000 flight time type : 5000 |
ASRS Report | 477876 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : atp pilot : instrument pilot : commercial |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 69 flight time total : 2500 flight time type : 250 |
ASRS Report | 477190 |
Events | |
Anomaly | altitude deviation : overshoot inflight encounter : weather non adherence : clearance other anomaly other |
Independent Detector | other controllerb other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | controller : issued new clearance other |
Supplementary | |
Problem Areas | ATC Human Performance Flight Crew Human Performance Weather |
Primary Problem | Ambiguous |
Narrative:
On our descent into msy, there was a small line of thunderstorms. Our current altitude at the time was approximately FL290. When we were given a descent to FL240, we were allowed to deviate at which time we were doing. On our present heading, we would be passing between 2 cells, we also had buildups right below us as well of in front of us, tops appeared to be FL180. Then center gave us a descent to 11000 ft and a crossing restr, at which time we told him we were unable to make. Center told us to make a right 360 degree turn and descend to 16000 ft. As we approached the heading we were supposed to roll out on, center gave us a descent to 11000 ft, and wanted us to do another 360 degree turn, at which time we told him if we did it would put us right into the buildups which we were deviating from as well as a very slow descent to clear the tops at 17000 ft and 18000 ft. Once we cleared the buildups and they were behind us, I began a rapid descent down to 11000 ft trying to help the controller out. Passing 16000 ft, I asked the first officer if he would verify our clearance down to 11000 ft. Center came back and said no, he had only given us a clearance down to 16000 ft and what was our altitude? We told him it was 14200 ft and that we were climbing to 16000 ft. The rest of the flight was normal. What I believe had happened is when the controller gave us the 360 degree turn and the descent down to 16000 ft that was the last altitude he had written down. So when we asked to verify our descent down to 11000 ft, the controller looked at his pad to see what he had written on it, and he saw 16000 ft when in fact if he was to pull and listen to the tapes he would have found out we were given a descent clearance down to 11000 ft.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: MANEUVERING FOR WX DEVS ALT CLRNC BECOMES UNCLR. VERIFICATION WITH ATC REVEALS DSCNT BELOW ARTCC'S DESIRED ALT.
Narrative: ON OUR DSCNT INTO MSY, THERE WAS A SMALL LINE OF TSTMS. OUR CURRENT ALT AT THE TIME WAS APPROX FL290. WHEN WE WERE GIVEN A DSCNT TO FL240, WE WERE ALLOWED TO DEVIATE AT WHICH TIME WE WERE DOING. ON OUR PRESENT HDG, WE WOULD BE PASSING BTWN 2 CELLS, WE ALSO HAD BUILDUPS RIGHT BELOW US AS WELL OF IN FRONT OF US, TOPS APPEARED TO BE FL180. THEN CTR GAVE US A DSCNT TO 11000 FT AND A XING RESTR, AT WHICH TIME WE TOLD HIM WE WERE UNABLE TO MAKE. CTR TOLD US TO MAKE A R 360 DEG TURN AND DSND TO 16000 FT. AS WE APCHED THE HDG WE WERE SUPPOSED TO ROLL OUT ON, CTR GAVE US A DSCNT TO 11000 FT, AND WANTED US TO DO ANOTHER 360 DEG TURN, AT WHICH TIME WE TOLD HIM IF WE DID IT WOULD PUT US RIGHT INTO THE BUILDUPS WHICH WE WERE DEVIATING FROM AS WELL AS A VERY SLOW DSCNT TO CLR THE TOPS AT 17000 FT AND 18000 FT. ONCE WE CLRED THE BUILDUPS AND THEY WERE BEHIND US, I BEGAN A RAPID DSCNT DOWN TO 11000 FT TRYING TO HELP THE CTLR OUT. PASSING 16000 FT, I ASKED THE FO IF HE WOULD VERIFY OUR CLRNC DOWN TO 11000 FT. CTR CAME BACK AND SAID NO, HE HAD ONLY GIVEN US A CLRNC DOWN TO 16000 FT AND WHAT WAS OUR ALT? WE TOLD HIM IT WAS 14200 FT AND THAT WE WERE CLBING TO 16000 FT. THE REST OF THE FLT WAS NORMAL. WHAT I BELIEVE HAD HAPPENED IS WHEN THE CTLR GAVE US THE 360 DEG TURN AND THE DSCNT DOWN TO 16000 FT THAT WAS THE LAST ALT HE HAD WRITTEN DOWN. SO WHEN WE ASKED TO VERIFY OUR DSCNT DOWN TO 11000 FT, THE CTLR LOOKED AT HIS PAD TO SEE WHAT HE HAD WRITTEN ON IT, AND HE SAW 16000 FT WHEN IN FACT IF HE WAS TO PULL AND LISTEN TO THE TAPES HE WOULD HAVE FOUND OUT WE WERE GIVEN A DSCNT CLRNC DOWN TO 11000 FT.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.