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B727 initiates WX avoidance action and conflicts with DHC8 when controller apparently issues incorrect altitude turn clearance.
| Attributes | |
| ACN | 479110 |
| Time | |
| Date | 200007 |
| Day | Sat |
| Local Time Of Day | 1801 To 2400 |
| Place | |
| Locale Reference | airport : lga.airport |
| State Reference | NY |
| Altitude | msl single value : 12000 |
| Environment | |
| Flight Conditions | Mixed |
| Weather Elements | Rain Thunderstorm |
| Light | Daylight |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Controlling Facilities | tracon : n90.tracon |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | B727 Undifferentiated or Other Model |
| Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
| Flight Phase | climbout : intermediate altitude |
| Route In Use | departure : on vectors |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Aircraft 2 | |
| Controlling Facilities | tracon : n90.tracon |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | Dash 8 Series Undifferentiated or Other Model |
| Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
| Flight Phase | cruise : level |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Person 1 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : first officer |
| Qualification | pilot : atp |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 90 flight time total : 12500 flight time type : 5000 |
| ASRS Report | 479110 |
| Person 2 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
| Qualification | pilot : atp |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | conflict : airborne less severe inflight encounter : weather non adherence : required legal separation non adherence : published procedure non adherence : clearance other spatial deviation |
| Independent Detector | atc equipment : conflict alert atc equipment other atc equipment : radar other controllera other flight crewa |
| Resolutory Action | controller : issued new clearance controller : issued advisory flight crew : took precautionary avoidance action |
| Consequence | faa : investigated faa : reviewed incident with flight crew |
| Miss Distance | horizontal : 12000 vertical : 600 |
| Supplementary | |
| Problem Areas | Weather Flight Crew Human Performance ATC Human Performance |
| Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
| Air Traffic Incident | Operational Error |
Narrative:
Climb out from lga, WX ahead, asked controller for turn to south to avoid -- advised of traffic. Told him needed turn now. Told us out of 12000 ft. We could turn. Going through 12000 ft, turned toward ssw. Saw traffic on TCASII at 12000 ft, increased rate of climb to get above traffic. Advised by controller he could not maintain IFR separation. Problem: WX, traffic conflict. Factors: immediate need to avoid WX with or without permission to turn. Initially, controller told us a turn was possible out of 13000 ft, but we told him we needed it now, 12000 ft was the new option. With pressure on the controller to give us a turn, I believe we were given the turn at 12000 ft in error, since there was already an aircraft there!
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: B727 INITIATES WX AVOIDANCE ACTION AND CONFLICTS WITH DHC8 WHEN CTLR APPARENTLY ISSUES INCORRECT ALT TURN CLRNC.
Narrative: CLBOUT FROM LGA, WX AHEAD, ASKED CTLR FOR TURN TO S TO AVOID -- ADVISED OF TFC. TOLD HIM NEEDED TURN NOW. TOLD US OUT OF 12000 FT. WE COULD TURN. GOING THROUGH 12000 FT, TURNED TOWARD SSW. SAW TFC ON TCASII AT 12000 FT, INCREASED RATE OF CLB TO GET ABOVE TFC. ADVISED BY CTLR HE COULD NOT MAINTAIN IFR SEPARATION. PROB: WX, TFC CONFLICT. FACTORS: IMMEDIATE NEED TO AVOID WX WITH OR WITHOUT PERMISSION TO TURN. INITIALLY, CTLR TOLD US A TURN WAS POSSIBLE OUT OF 13000 FT, BUT WE TOLD HIM WE NEEDED IT NOW, 12000 FT WAS THE NEW OPTION. WITH PRESSURE ON THE CTLR TO GIVE US A TURN, I BELIEVE WE WERE GIVEN THE TURN AT 12000 FT IN ERROR, SINCE THERE WAS ALREADY AN ACFT THERE!
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.