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Flight crew of a B727-200 refused takeoff clearance when an ATR crossing runway could not clear runway because of another aircraft holding in front of them. Tower believed that the ATR was sufficiently clear of the runway, even though the ATR flight crew reported they were not.
| Attributes | |
| ACN | 483289 |
| Time | |
| Date | 200008 |
| Day | Tue |
| Local Time Of Day | 0601 To 1200 |
| Place | |
| Locale Reference | airport : dfw.airport |
| State Reference | TX |
| Altitude | agl single value : 0 |
| Environment | |
| Flight Conditions | VMC |
| Light | Daylight |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | B727-200 |
| Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
| Flight Phase | ground : position and hold |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Aircraft 2 | |
| Controlling Facilities | tower : dfw.tower |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | ATR Undifferentiated or Other Model |
| Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
| Flight Phase | ground : holding |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Person 1 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
| Qualification | pilot : atp |
| ASRS Report | 483289 |
| Person 2 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : first officer |
| Qualification | pilot : instrument pilot : multi engine pilot : commercial |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | ground encounters other other anomaly other |
| Independent Detector | other flight crewa |
| Resolutory Action | other |
| Consequence | faa : reviewed incident with flight crew other Other |
| Supplementary | |
| Problem Areas | Flight Crew Human Performance ATC Human Performance |
| Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
| Air Traffic Incident | other |
Narrative:
Cleared to taxi into position and hold runway 17R dfw. Many aircraft downfield cleared to cross runway 17R from east side to ramp side. An air carrier Y ATR crossed runway 17R at ek but was unable to clear hold short line due to aircraft in front of him. He advised tower controller that he was not clear of runway 17R. Tower subsequently cleared us for takeoff runway 17R. We advised tower that the runway was not clear, due to the ATR. Controller advised us that it looked clear. I advised tower that we would take off when the ATR crossed clear of the hold short line. Other air carrier again stated that he was not clear. Tower told us to hold in position. Other air carrier cleared the runway and we were given clearance to take off. What is clear of the runway? Why do we need the lines if tower doesn't use them?
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: FLC OF A B727-200 REFUSED TKOF CLRNC WHEN AN ATR XING RWY COULD NOT CLR RWY BECAUSE OF ANOTHER ACFT HOLDING IN FRONT OF THEM. TWR BELIEVED THAT THE ATR WAS SUFFICIENTLY CLR OF THE RWY, EVEN THOUGH THE ATR FLC RPTED THEY WERE NOT.
Narrative: CLRED TO TAXI INTO POS AND HOLD RWY 17R DFW. MANY ACFT DOWNFIELD CLRED TO CROSS RWY 17R FROM E SIDE TO RAMP SIDE. AN ACR Y ATR CROSSED RWY 17R AT EK BUT WAS UNABLE TO CLR HOLD SHORT LINE DUE TO ACFT IN FRONT OF HIM. HE ADVISED TWR CTLR THAT HE WAS NOT CLR OF RWY 17R. TWR SUBSEQUENTLY CLRED US FOR TKOF RWY 17R. WE ADVISED TWR THAT THE RWY WAS NOT CLR, DUE TO THE ATR. CTLR ADVISED US THAT IT LOOKED CLR. I ADVISED TWR THAT WE WOULD TAKE OFF WHEN THE ATR CROSSED CLR OF THE HOLD SHORT LINE. OTHER ACR AGAIN STATED THAT HE WAS NOT CLR. TWR TOLD US TO HOLD IN POS. OTHER ACR CLRED THE RWY AND WE WERE GIVEN CLRNC TO TAKE OFF. WHAT IS CLR OF THE RWY? WHY DO WE NEED THE LINES IF TWR DOESN'T USE THEM?
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.