A citation flight crew fails to make the altitude crossing restr as instructed by joshua approach co...

Attributes
ACN	509314
Time
Date	200104
Day	Mon
Local Time Of Day	0601 To 1200
Place
Locale Reference	navaid : pmd.vortac
State Reference	CA
Altitude	msl bound lower : 8000 msl bound upper : 10000
Environment
Flight Conditions	VMC
Light	Daylight
Aircraft 1
Operator	general aviation : corporate
Make Model Name	Citation III, VI, VII
Operating Under FAR Part	Part 91
Navigation In Use	other other vortac
Flight Phase	descent : vacating altitude
Flight Plan	IFR
Person 1
Affiliation	company : corporate
Function	flight crew : first officer
Qualification	pilot : atp pilot : multi engine pilot : instrument pilot : commercial
Experience	flight time last 90 days : 120 flight time total : 4000 flight time type : 1500
ASRS Report	509314
Person 2
Affiliation	company : corporate
Function	flight crew : captain oversight : pic
Events
Anomaly	altitude deviation : undershoot altitude deviation : crossing restriction not met non adherence : clearance
Independent Detector	other controllera
Resolutory Action	controller : issued alert none taken : insufficient time
Consequence	faa : reviewed incident with flight crew other
Supplementary
Problem Areas	Flight Crew Human Performance
Primary Problem	Flight Crew Human Performance
Air Traffic Incident	Pilot Deviation

Narrative:

Joshua approach cleared us to cross 15 mi southwest of palmdale VOR at 8000 ft. The captain was flying the aircraft. We were already in a descent when this clearance was issued and the captain did not change his rate of descent. I presumed that this rate would be sufficient to meet the restr. I had been busy with the radio and the checklist and I did not take the time to check and see if this rate would meet the restr. A min of 2 later, the controller reissued our descent clearance which I read back. At this point, I realized that we were high and at our current rate we would not meet the restr. However, there was still plenty of time to make the restr at a higher rate. I read back the clearance to the captain. His response was 'yeah, I know.' I continued with my duties. The next time I looked up we were about 13 mi from palmdale out of about 10000 ft. Before I could say anything to the captain, the controller came on the radio and stated 'your clearance was to cross 15 mi southwest of pmd at 8000 ft increase your rate.' I replied 'roger.' the controller then came back and said 'I show you at your crossing restr now about 2000 ft high...that's unacceptable.' I agree completely, it was unacceptable. I looked at the captain expecting some kind of response for the controller, perhaps a reason or even an apology. The captain was silent. His silence continued after we reached the ground. I believe that this problem could have been prevented by better communication. If the captain was unable or did not intend to meet the crossing restr, then we should have notified the controller as soon as that determination was made. Additionally, once the problem occurred, we should have sat down as a crew and discussed what happened and how we could prevent the problem from occurring in the future. Neither of these were done. Thus, as the PNF, I intend to monitor the captain's dscnts more closely and more directly question him about meeting the crossing restrs if it appears he is too high.

Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: A CITATION FLC FAILS TO MAKE THE ALT XING RESTR AS INSTRUCTED BY JOSHUA APCH CTLR, 15 MI SW OF PMD, CA.

Narrative: JOSHUA APCH CLRED US TO CROSS 15 MI SW OF PALMDALE VOR AT 8000 FT. THE CAPT WAS FLYING THE ACFT. WE WERE ALREADY IN A DSCNT WHEN THIS CLRNC WAS ISSUED AND THE CAPT DID NOT CHANGE HIS RATE OF DSCNT. I PRESUMED THAT THIS RATE WOULD BE SUFFICIENT TO MEET THE RESTR. I HAD BEEN BUSY WITH THE RADIO AND THE CHKLIST AND I DID NOT TAKE THE TIME TO CHK AND SEE IF THIS RATE WOULD MEET THE RESTR. A MIN OF 2 LATER, THE CTLR REISSUED OUR DSCNT CLRNC WHICH I READ BACK. AT THIS POINT, I REALIZED THAT WE WERE HIGH AND AT OUR CURRENT RATE WE WOULD NOT MEET THE RESTR. HOWEVER, THERE WAS STILL PLENTY OF TIME TO MAKE THE RESTR AT A HIGHER RATE. I READ BACK THE CLRNC TO THE CAPT. HIS RESPONSE WAS 'YEAH, I KNOW.' I CONTINUED WITH MY DUTIES. THE NEXT TIME I LOOKED UP WE WERE ABOUT 13 MI FROM PALMDALE OUT OF ABOUT 10000 FT. BEFORE I COULD SAY ANYTHING TO THE CAPT, THE CTLR CAME ON THE RADIO AND STATED 'YOUR CLRNC WAS TO CROSS 15 MI SW OF PMD AT 8000 FT INCREASE YOUR RATE.' I REPLIED 'ROGER.' THE CTLR THEN CAME BACK AND SAID 'I SHOW YOU AT YOUR XING RESTR NOW ABOUT 2000 FT HIGH...THAT'S UNACCEPTABLE.' I AGREE COMPLETELY, IT WAS UNACCEPTABLE. I LOOKED AT THE CAPT EXPECTING SOME KIND OF RESPONSE FOR THE CTLR, PERHAPS A REASON OR EVEN AN APOLOGY. THE CAPT WAS SILENT. HIS SILENCE CONTINUED AFTER WE REACHED THE GND. I BELIEVE THAT THIS PROB COULD HAVE BEEN PREVENTED BY BETTER COM. IF THE CAPT WAS UNABLE OR DID NOT INTEND TO MEET THE XING RESTR, THEN WE SHOULD HAVE NOTIFIED THE CTLR AS SOON AS THAT DETERMINATION WAS MADE. ADDITIONALLY, ONCE THE PROB OCCURRED, WE SHOULD HAVE SAT DOWN AS A CREW AND DISCUSSED WHAT HAPPENED AND HOW WE COULD PREVENT THE PROB FROM OCCURRING IN THE FUTURE. NEITHER OF THESE WERE DONE. THUS, AS THE PNF, I INTEND TO MONITOR THE CAPT'S DSCNTS MORE CLOSELY AND MORE DIRECTLY QUESTION HIM ABOUT MEETING THE XING RESTRS IF IT APPEARS HE IS TOO HIGH.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.

A citation flight crew fails to make the altitude crossing restr as instructed by joshua approach controller, 15 mi southwest of pmd, ca.