37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 514803 |
Time | |
Date | 200106 |
Day | Thu |
Local Time Of Day | 1801 To 2400 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : ord.airport |
State Reference | IL |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 39600 msl bound upper : 5800 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : c90.tracon tower : iah.tower |
Operator | general aviation : personal |
Make Model Name | Golden Eagle 421 |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 91 |
Flight Plan | VFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | other |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : commercial pilot : instrument pilot : multi engine |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 60 flight time total : 2100 flight time type : 600 |
ASRS Report | 514803 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | other |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Events | |
Anomaly | airspace violation : entry conflict : airborne less severe non adherence : far |
Independent Detector | other controllera other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | flight crew : exited penetrated airspace |
Consequence | faa : reviewed incident with flight crew other |
Supplementary | |
Problem Areas | Airspace Structure Flight Crew Human Performance ATC Human Performance |
Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation Intra Facility Coordination Failure |
Narrative:
I was descending from 17500 ft on VFR flight following going into pwk. With the angle of descent and past experience, I realized the flight path could clip chicago's class B airspace. Rockford approach is not allowed to pass on any VFR flight followings to chicago, so I was forced to go to 1200 and call chicago on 120.55. After getting a squawk code, the controller said she was too busy, and said I should try 125.0. I protested and she indicated that the other controller wasn't as busy and I was really in the other controller's territory being at or above 4000 ft. This was the first time on my weekly trips where I was asked to go to 125.0. With both controllers, I repeatedly offered my distance from the edge of the class B airspace. Starting at about 25 mi, 12 mi, 6 mi, 3.5 mi, 1.5 mi. For the last 2 call-INS, I was reminding the 125.0 controller I hadn't received clearance yet. Finally at .5 or .2 mi out, the controller said she was too busy and I was to remain clear of the class B airspace. At that time, I was descending at 200 KIAS and still had a strong 30-KT tailwind. I went into a left bank to exit the class B area but still went into the class B area by .8 mi. Descending from 5800 ft at the beginning edge of the class B airspace to exiting out the button at 3600 ft. I was only clipping the lower outside edge. My complaints are: 1) I believe it would have been safer if the 120.55 controller kept me for that short distance. 2) I was lulled into thinking I was going to get a clearance. Police are not allowed to entrap a suspect. I would never violate class B airspace on my own. A more cynical person would say the delayed response was intentional to see airplanes do cartwheels on radar or controller betting on what would happen. 3)from my time on 120.55, I knew there were jets on the ILS to pwk. I was very uncomfortable because my maneuvers were evasive and not generally predictable. My turning left turn was the quickest way out of the class B airspace, but it also pushed me towards the jet's approach path head-on. 4) when calling the manager at TRACON to get the NASA form for the first time in my 30+ yrs of flying, I felt pressures of intimidation. The manager wanted to know what happened, which is ok. But then stated he sided with his controller because their blanket 'remain clear of class B airspace' protected her. You file that form and it will start an investigation. After those statements, he demanded my name and n-number. I refused because of his attitude, stating I wanted to file a NASA form first. We talked and later he did receive my information, which was given to aid the NASA safety man who handles the NASA program. I also offered my phone number and the manager did not want it. I insisted 3 times that he take it. My information was for NASA follow-up, but the controller didn't want it. I had to insist because I felt duped, scared and I wanted to remind him the pretense that I gave him the information. Sure enough, the next morning, there was no information left for the NASA program man. No information was collected nor was there any note for him to call me from the manager. It has been 2 weeks and I am still mad about that. Does anybody think I am the first person to receive this treatment?
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: A C421 COMMERCIAL PLT PENETRATES THE EDGE OF THE CLASS B AIRSPACE WHEN ATC DELAYS THEIR MESSAGE OF 'REMAIN CLR OF THE CLASS B' 25 NM N OF ORD, IL.
Narrative: I WAS DSNDING FROM 17500 FT ON VFR FLT FOLLOWING GOING INTO PWK. WITH THE ANGLE OF DSCNT AND PAST EXPERIENCE, I REALIZED THE FLT PATH COULD CLIP CHICAGO'S CLASS B AIRSPACE. ROCKFORD APCH IS NOT ALLOWED TO PASS ON ANY VFR FLT FOLLOWINGS TO CHICAGO, SO I WAS FORCED TO GO TO 1200 AND CALL CHICAGO ON 120.55. AFTER GETTING A SQUAWK CODE, THE CTLR SAID SHE WAS TOO BUSY, AND SAID I SHOULD TRY 125.0. I PROTESTED AND SHE INDICATED THAT THE OTHER CTLR WASN'T AS BUSY AND I WAS REALLY IN THE OTHER CTLR'S TERRITORY BEING AT OR ABOVE 4000 FT. THIS WAS THE FIRST TIME ON MY WKLY TRIPS WHERE I WAS ASKED TO GO TO 125.0. WITH BOTH CTLRS, I REPEATEDLY OFFERED MY DISTANCE FROM THE EDGE OF THE CLASS B AIRSPACE. STARTING AT ABOUT 25 MI, 12 MI, 6 MI, 3.5 MI, 1.5 MI. FOR THE LAST 2 CALL-INS, I WAS REMINDING THE 125.0 CTLR I HADN'T RECEIVED CLRNC YET. FINALLY AT .5 OR .2 MI OUT, THE CTLR SAID SHE WAS TOO BUSY AND I WAS TO REMAIN CLR OF THE CLASS B AIRSPACE. AT THAT TIME, I WAS DSNDING AT 200 KIAS AND STILL HAD A STRONG 30-KT TAILWIND. I WENT INTO A L BANK TO EXIT THE CLASS B AREA BUT STILL WENT INTO THE CLASS B AREA BY .8 MI. DSNDING FROM 5800 FT AT THE BEGINNING EDGE OF THE CLASS B AIRSPACE TO EXITING OUT THE BUTTON AT 3600 FT. I WAS ONLY CLIPPING THE LOWER OUTSIDE EDGE. MY COMPLAINTS ARE: 1) I BELIEVE IT WOULD HAVE BEEN SAFER IF THE 120.55 CTLR KEPT ME FOR THAT SHORT DISTANCE. 2) I WAS LULLED INTO THINKING I WAS GOING TO GET A CLRNC. POLICE ARE NOT ALLOWED TO ENTRAP A SUSPECT. I WOULD NEVER VIOLATE CLASS B AIRSPACE ON MY OWN. A MORE CYNICAL PERSON WOULD SAY THE DELAYED RESPONSE WAS INTENTIONAL TO SEE AIRPLANES DO CARTWHEELS ON RADAR OR CTLR BETTING ON WHAT WOULD HAPPEN. 3)FROM MY TIME ON 120.55, I KNEW THERE WERE JETS ON THE ILS TO PWK. I WAS VERY UNCOMFORTABLE BECAUSE MY MANEUVERS WERE EVASIVE AND NOT GENERALLY PREDICTABLE. MY TURNING L TURN WAS THE QUICKEST WAY OUT OF THE CLASS B AIRSPACE, BUT IT ALSO PUSHED ME TOWARDS THE JET'S APCH PATH HEAD-ON. 4) WHEN CALLING THE MGR AT TRACON TO GET THE NASA FORM FOR THE FIRST TIME IN MY 30+ YRS OF FLYING, I FELT PRESSURES OF INTIMIDATION. THE MGR WANTED TO KNOW WHAT HAPPENED, WHICH IS OK. BUT THEN STATED HE SIDED WITH HIS CTLR BECAUSE THEIR BLANKET 'REMAIN CLR OF CLASS B AIRSPACE' PROTECTED HER. YOU FILE THAT FORM AND IT WILL START AN INVESTIGATION. AFTER THOSE STATEMENTS, HE DEMANDED MY NAME AND N-NUMBER. I REFUSED BECAUSE OF HIS ATTITUDE, STATING I WANTED TO FILE A NASA FORM FIRST. WE TALKED AND LATER HE DID RECEIVE MY INFO, WHICH WAS GIVEN TO AID THE NASA SAFETY MAN WHO HANDLES THE NASA PROGRAM. I ALSO OFFERED MY PHONE NUMBER AND THE MGR DID NOT WANT IT. I INSISTED 3 TIMES THAT HE TAKE IT. MY INFO WAS FOR NASA FOLLOW-UP, BUT THE CTLR DIDN'T WANT IT. I HAD TO INSIST BECAUSE I FELT DUPED, SCARED AND I WANTED TO REMIND HIM THE PRETENSE THAT I GAVE HIM THE INFO. SURE ENOUGH, THE NEXT MORNING, THERE WAS NO INFO LEFT FOR THE NASA PROGRAM MAN. NO INFO WAS COLLECTED NOR WAS THERE ANY NOTE FOR HIM TO CALL ME FROM THE MGR. IT HAS BEEN 2 WKS AND I AM STILL MAD ABOUT THAT. DOES ANYBODY THINK I AM THE FIRST PERSON TO RECEIVE THIS TREATMENT?
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.