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|
Attributes | |
ACN | 523574 |
Time | |
Date | 200109 |
Day | Mon |
Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : dag.airport |
State Reference | CA |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | Mixed |
Weather Elements | Thunderstorm |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | artcc : zla.artcc tracon : e10.tracon |
Operator | general aviation : personal |
Make Model Name | Skylane 182/RG Turbo Skylane/RG |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 91 |
Navigation In Use | other vortac |
Flight Phase | cruise : level |
Route In Use | enroute : direct |
Aircraft 2 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : e10.tracon |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | B737 Undifferentiated or Other Model |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | other |
Function | flight crew : single pilot |
Qualification | pilot : instrument pilot : commercial pilot : cfi |
ASRS Report | 523574 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Events | |
Anomaly | airspace violation : entry inflight encounter : weather inflight encounter other non adherence : clearance other anomaly other other spatial deviation |
Independent Detector | other controllera other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | flight crew : took precautionary avoidance action flight crew : exited adverse environment flight crew : exited penetrated airspace |
Consequence | faa : reviewed incident with flight crew |
Supplementary | |
Problem Areas | Environmental Factor Flight Crew Human Performance Weather ATC Human Performance Airspace Structure |
Primary Problem | Weather |
Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation |
Narrative:
Received preflight WX brief forecasting convective activity (thunderstorms). Flying on published victor airway (V394) from vegas direct daggett. Thunderstorm buildup approximately 2 hours prior to time forecasted in brief. Large cell developed directly over daggett of slightly northeast of. Could not fly through cell, cause lightning strikes and heavy precipitation with severe downdrafts. Was safety of flight issue. Queried ZLA and joshua approach to overfly R-2502E or R-2502N due to thunderstorm (altitude was 8500 ft). They told us 'no, cause live fire artillery.' I am 100% sure (being an active duty member of military) that the military was not shooting artillery. They instructed me to turn 10-15 degrees left. I could not because that would put me directly in heart of thunderstorm. I communicated this. 4 other aircraft (including air carrier B737) had exact same problem and asked center for same request. They continued to deny cause artillery live fire. Suggestion: airspace (restr) needs 24 hour, 7 days a week poc for granting permission in such occurrences. This was safety of flight issue. Could not proceed south cause multiple thunderstorm cells. To the north was clear with little or no cumulus buildup. If that airspace is really that burdened by artillery, should be prohibited not restr. Also, at what altitude does artillery round achieve? Airspace should be managed like R-2515 (edwards AFB) which allows overflts above 6000 ft on no-use hours (weekends). In the end, joshua told me I flew through restr airspace. If I did, I did not violate it by more than 1 mi or 2 mi. Point is, I should never have been harassed and denied. Approach should have had authority/authorized to permit request.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: C182 PLT REQUIRED TO DEVIATE INTO MIL RESTR AREA DUE TO WX.
Narrative: RECEIVED PREFLT WX BRIEF FORECASTING CONVECTIVE ACTIVITY (TSTMS). FLYING ON PUBLISHED VICTOR AIRWAY (V394) FROM VEGAS DIRECT DAGGETT. TSTM BUILDUP APPROX 2 HRS PRIOR TO TIME FORECASTED IN BRIEF. LARGE CELL DEVELOPED DIRECTLY OVER DAGGETT OF SLIGHTLY NE OF. COULD NOT FLY THROUGH CELL, CAUSE LIGHTNING STRIKES AND HVY PRECIPITATION WITH SEVERE DOWNDRAFTS. WAS SAFETY OF FLT ISSUE. QUERIED ZLA AND JOSHUA APCH TO OVERFLY R-2502E OR R-2502N DUE TO TSTM (ALT WAS 8500 FT). THEY TOLD US 'NO, CAUSE LIVE FIRE ARTILLERY.' I AM 100% SURE (BEING AN ACTIVE DUTY MEMBER OF MIL) THAT THE MIL WAS NOT SHOOTING ARTILLERY. THEY INSTRUCTED ME TO TURN 10-15 DEGS L. I COULD NOT BECAUSE THAT WOULD PUT ME DIRECTLY IN HEART OF TSTM. I COMMUNICATED THIS. 4 OTHER ACFT (INCLUDING ACR B737) HAD EXACT SAME PROB AND ASKED CTR FOR SAME REQUEST. THEY CONTINUED TO DENY CAUSE ARTILLERY LIVE FIRE. SUGGESTION: AIRSPACE (RESTR) NEEDS 24 HR, 7 DAYS A WK POC FOR GRANTING PERMISSION IN SUCH OCCURRENCES. THIS WAS SAFETY OF FLT ISSUE. COULD NOT PROCEED S CAUSE MULTIPLE TSTM CELLS. TO THE N WAS CLR WITH LITTLE OR NO CUMULUS BUILDUP. IF THAT AIRSPACE IS REALLY THAT BURDENED BY ARTILLERY, SHOULD BE PROHIBITED NOT RESTR. ALSO, AT WHAT ALT DOES ARTILLERY ROUND ACHIEVE? AIRSPACE SHOULD BE MANAGED LIKE R-2515 (EDWARDS AFB) WHICH ALLOWS OVERFLTS ABOVE 6000 FT ON NO-USE HOURS (WEEKENDS). IN THE END, JOSHUA TOLD ME I FLEW THROUGH RESTR AIRSPACE. IF I DID, I DID NOT VIOLATE IT BY MORE THAN 1 MI OR 2 MI. POINT IS, I SHOULD NEVER HAVE BEEN HARASSED AND DENIED. APCH SHOULD HAVE HAD AUTH TO PERMIT REQUEST.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.