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Attributes | |
ACN | 528030 |
Time | |
Date | 200110 |
Day | Wed |
Local Time Of Day | 1801 To 2400 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : las.airport |
State Reference | NV |
Altitude | agl single value : 0 |
Environment | |
Light | Night |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tower : crg.tower |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | B737-800 |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Navigation In Use | other |
Flight Phase | ground : taxi landing : roll |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Aircraft 2 | |
Controlling Facilities | tower : las.tower |
Make Model Name | Any Unknown or Unlisted Aircraft Manufacturer |
Flight Phase | ground : taxi |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 240 flight time total : 17000 flight time type : 8000 |
ASRS Report | 528030 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Events | |
Anomaly | ground encounters other non adherence : published procedure non adherence : far other anomaly other |
Independent Detector | other controllera other flight crewa other other : 2 |
Resolutory Action | controller : issued new clearance none taken : detected after the fact |
Consequence | faa : reviewed incident with flight crew faa : assigned or threatened penalties faa : investigated |
Supplementary | |
Problem Areas | ATC Human Performance FAA |
Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | Operational Error |
Situations | |
ATC Facility | procedure or policy : las.tower |
Narrative:
We were assigned runway 19L. We then reviewed the runway 19L approach information in more detail, reset the FMC, discussed runway length, lighting and turnoff expectations. Since our newly assigned runway was somewhat shorter we elected to set autobrakes to #2. The visual approach to runway 19L was uneventful, I slowed, configured, and we were stabilized on the PAPI above 1000 ft AGL. A normal touchdown, in the touchdown zone, occurred moderate braking was initiated by the autobrake system with normal deployment of spoilers and reversers. Deceleration, considering our high gross weight, target speed, density altitude appeared normal. As the aircraft slowed, las tower requested that we 'turn left on taxiway west, next available taxiway, contact ground.' upon hearing that, I glanced to my left and saw signage indicating we were at taxiway B. Now, the controller certainly wouldn't issue a clearance to turn off on a taxiway that was behind us, so logic has it that taxiway west would be somewhat beyond taxiway B. Not trusting my memory to such an important detail, I glanced at my las airport chart to refresh myself on how much farther down taxiway west was, and lo and behold it was, in fact, behind us. I verbalized to my first officer, sharing my pain, 'we've missed taxiway west, let's just roll to the end.' he concurred. I saw the end of runway 19L approaching. As we neared runway 25R intersection we visually checked for traffic. We observed an aircraft at the far end of runway 25R, sensing no moment, seeing no conflict, and having no restr on not to cross runway 25R we continued to expedite to the end of runway 19L at a normal taxi speed, planning to now turn off at taxiway D. In the vicinity of runway 25R/19L intersection, tower requested us to 'make a 180 degree turn at the end and hold short of runway 25R on runway 19,' which we did. At no time did we observe a traffic conflict. Once cleared, we had an uneventful taxi to the gate. Upon arrival, a request was made to have a flight crew member call the tower. In my conversation with the las tower supervisor, he assertively took exception to our operation stating we had acted inappropriately, delayed on the runway we had been cleared to land on, we rolled to the end and thereby caused a loss of separation with an aircraft departing runway 25R. I assured him that what we did was in the interest of safety, in accordance with all procedures and policies and done in an effort to facilitate ATC. The conversation, while professional on the controller's part, seemed to me to be somewhat vague, sketchy, and slightly confusing on exactly what we had done wrong. He advised me to 'call back later after I talk to my supervisor' to see 'what action would be taken.' when I called back I was told I was being charged with a pilot deviation. We went on to discuss concerns about the incident such as pilot/controller conversations/terminology, local ATC procedures, standard procedures/policies, lahso versus full length landing clrncs and B737-900 operating information versus our standard B737 fleet and the need to occasionally just slow down.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: B737-900 CREW WAS UNABLE TO EXIT RWY 19L AT LAS AFTER BEING ASSIGNED A TURNOFF THAT WAS BEHIND THEM.
Narrative: WE WERE ASSIGNED RWY 19L. WE THEN REVIEWED THE RWY 19L APCH INFO IN MORE DETAIL, RESET THE FMC, DISCUSSED RWY LENGTH, LIGHTING AND TURNOFF EXPECTATIONS. SINCE OUR NEWLY ASSIGNED RWY WAS SOMEWHAT SHORTER WE ELECTED TO SET AUTOBRAKES TO #2. THE VISUAL APCH TO RWY 19L WAS UNEVENTFUL, I SLOWED, CONFIGURED, AND WE WERE STABILIZED ON THE PAPI ABOVE 1000 FT AGL. A NORMAL TOUCHDOWN, IN THE TOUCHDOWN ZONE, OCCURRED MODERATE BRAKING WAS INITIATED BY THE AUTOBRAKE SYS WITH NORMAL DEPLOYMENT OF SPOILERS AND REVERSERS. DECELERATION, CONSIDERING OUR HIGH GROSS WT, TARGET SPD, DENSITY ALT APPEARED NORMAL. AS THE ACFT SLOWED, LAS TWR REQUESTED THAT WE 'TURN L ON TXWY W, NEXT AVAILABLE TXWY, CONTACT GND.' UPON HEARING THAT, I GLANCED TO MY L AND SAW SIGNAGE INDICATING WE WERE AT TXWY B. NOW, THE CTLR CERTAINLY WOULDN'T ISSUE A CLRNC TO TURN OFF ON A TXWY THAT WAS BEHIND US, SO LOGIC HAS IT THAT TXWY W WOULD BE SOMEWHAT BEYOND TXWY B. NOT TRUSTING MY MEMORY TO SUCH AN IMPORTANT DETAIL, I GLANCED AT MY LAS ARPT CHART TO REFRESH MYSELF ON HOW MUCH FARTHER DOWN TXWY W WAS, AND LO AND BEHOLD IT WAS, IN FACT, BEHIND US. I VERBALIZED TO MY FO, SHARING MY PAIN, 'WE'VE MISSED TXWY W, LET'S JUST ROLL TO THE END.' HE CONCURRED. I SAW THE END OF RWY 19L APCHING. AS WE NEARED RWY 25R INTXN WE VISUALLY CHKED FOR TFC. WE OBSERVED AN ACFT AT THE FAR END OF RWY 25R, SENSING NO MOMENT, SEEING NO CONFLICT, AND HAVING NO RESTR ON NOT TO CROSS RWY 25R WE CONTINUED TO EXPEDITE TO THE END OF RWY 19L AT A NORMAL TAXI SPD, PLANNING TO NOW TURN OFF AT TXWY D. IN THE VICINITY OF RWY 25R/19L INTXN, TWR REQUESTED US TO 'MAKE A 180 DEG TURN AT THE END AND HOLD SHORT OF RWY 25R ON RWY 19,' WHICH WE DID. AT NO TIME DID WE OBSERVE A TFC CONFLICT. ONCE CLRED, WE HAD AN UNEVENTFUL TAXI TO THE GATE. UPON ARR, A REQUEST WAS MADE TO HAVE A FLC MEMBER CALL THE TWR. IN MY CONVERSATION WITH THE LAS TWR SUPVR, HE ASSERTIVELY TOOK EXCEPTION TO OUR OP STATING WE HAD ACTED INAPPROPRIATELY, DELAYED ON THE RWY WE HAD BEEN CLRED TO LAND ON, WE ROLLED TO THE END AND THEREBY CAUSED A LOSS OF SEPARATION WITH AN ACFT DEPARTING RWY 25R. I ASSURED HIM THAT WHAT WE DID WAS IN THE INTEREST OF SAFETY, IN ACCORDANCE WITH ALL PROCS AND POLICIES AND DONE IN AN EFFORT TO FACILITATE ATC. THE CONVERSATION, WHILE PROFESSIONAL ON THE CTLR'S PART, SEEMED TO ME TO BE SOMEWHAT VAGUE, SKETCHY, AND SLIGHTLY CONFUSING ON EXACTLY WHAT WE HAD DONE WRONG. HE ADVISED ME TO 'CALL BACK LATER AFTER I TALK TO MY SUPVR' TO SEE 'WHAT ACTION WOULD BE TAKEN.' WHEN I CALLED BACK I WAS TOLD I WAS BEING CHARGED WITH A PLTDEV. WE WENT ON TO DISCUSS CONCERNS ABOUT THE INCIDENT SUCH AS PLT/CTLR CONVERSATIONS/TERMINOLOGY, LCL ATC PROCS, STANDARD PROCS/POLICIES, LAHSO VERSUS FULL LENGTH LNDG CLRNCS AND B737-900 OPERATING INFO VERSUS OUR STANDARD B737 FLEET AND THE NEED TO OCCASIONALLY JUST SLOW DOWN.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.