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|
Attributes | |
ACN | 539227 |
Time | |
Date | 200202 |
Day | Thu |
Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | intersection : linng |
State Reference | ON |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 8600 msl bound upper : 10000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : cyyz.tracon tower : mia.tower |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | B737-500 |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Navigation In Use | other |
Flight Phase | descent : approach descent : vacating altitude |
Route In Use | arrival star : youth 1 |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 212 flight time total : 17500 flight time type : 1600 |
ASRS Report | 539227 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 145 flight time total : 5000 flight time type : 1200 |
ASRS Report | 539228 |
Events | |
Anomaly | altitude deviation : excursion from assigned altitude non adherence : clearance non adherence : published procedure |
Independent Detector | other controllerb |
Resolutory Action | controller : issued advisory controller : issued new clearance |
Consequence | faa : reviewed incident with flight crew other |
Supplementary | |
Problem Areas | Chart Or Publication Flight Crew Human Performance |
Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation |
Narrative:
Level 10000 ft at 250 KTS. Upon reaching linng intersection cleared for the youth 1 linng arrival runway 24R: FMS indicated descent point for vixan (final fix) we began descent. At 8600 ft approach control asked for our altitude. Replying 8600 ft we were told to climb to 9000 ft. Called upon landing, speaking with supervisor who said we were not cleared for descent on the STAR. All altitudes are assigned by ATC, noted on canadian plates but not commercial plates. No TCASII activation although traffic mentioned. Shift manager, mr X, wanted to discuss arrival expectations between canadian and united states procedures. Dylin 1 arrival into ewr was used as an example. He stated no infraction was to be filed. Misunderstanding of canadian STAR arrival procedures. We should not have initiated the descent without ATC clearance even though we were cleared for the arrival lateral guidance only not vertical. A notation on the commercial STAR plates or commercial chart highlighting that all altitudes on canadian stars will be assigned by ATC and that cleared for the arrival does not include altitude changes. Supplemental information from acn 539228: captain (PF) started descent to 3100 ft at vixen. We felt that once cleared for the arrival, we needed to comply with course and altitude restrs, and so we started our descent in compliance with the STAR, does it?
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: CLRED FOR AN ARR STAR AN ACR CREW BEGINS DSCNT WHEN THEIR FMS INDICATED THEY WERE AT TOP OF DSCNT POINT. ATC WAS QUICK TO NOTE THE ALT EXCURSION.
Narrative: LEVEL 10000 FT AT 250 KTS. UPON REACHING LINNG INTXN CLRED FOR THE YOUTH 1 LINNG ARR RWY 24R: FMS INDICATED DSCNT POINT FOR VIXAN (FINAL FIX) WE BEGAN DSCNT. AT 8600 FT APCH CTL ASKED FOR OUR ALT. REPLYING 8600 FT WE WERE TOLD TO CLB TO 9000 FT. CALLED UPON LNDG, SPEAKING WITH SUPVR WHO SAID WE WERE NOT CLRED FOR DSCNT ON THE STAR. ALL ALTS ARE ASSIGNED BY ATC, NOTED ON CANADIAN PLATES BUT NOT COMMERCIAL PLATES. NO TCASII ACTIVATION ALTHOUGH TFC MENTIONED. SHIFT MGR, MR X, WANTED TO DISCUSS ARR EXPECTATIONS BTWN CANADIAN AND UNITED STATES PROCS. DYLIN 1 ARR INTO EWR WAS USED AS AN EXAMPLE. HE STATED NO INFRACTION WAS TO BE FILED. MISUNDERSTANDING OF CANADIAN STAR ARR PROCS. WE SHOULD NOT HAVE INITIATED THE DSCNT WITHOUT ATC CLRNC EVEN THOUGH WE WERE CLRED FOR THE ARR LATERAL GUIDANCE ONLY NOT VERT. A NOTATION ON THE COMMERCIAL STAR PLATES OR COMMERCIAL CHART HIGHLIGHTING THAT ALL ALTS ON CANADIAN STARS WILL BE ASSIGNED BY ATC AND THAT CLRED FOR THE ARR DOES NOT INCLUDE ALT CHANGES. SUPPLEMENTAL INFO FROM ACN 539228: CAPT (PF) STARTED DSCNT TO 3100 FT AT VIXEN. WE FELT THAT ONCE CLRED FOR THE ARR, WE NEEDED TO COMPLY WITH COURSE AND ALT RESTRS, AND SO WE STARTED OUR DSCNT IN COMPLIANCE WITH THE STAR, DOES IT?
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.