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Potential conflict and less than standard separation when a CL65 flight crew underestimates the performance capability of their aircraft in climb and conflict with crossing traffic on frequency with ZOB, oh.
| Attributes | |
| ACN | 540966 |
| Time | |
| Date | 200203 |
| Day | Sat |
| Local Time Of Day | 0601 To 1200 |
| Place | |
| State Reference | NY |
| Altitude | msl bound lower : 31500 msl bound upper : 32600 |
| Environment | |
| Flight Conditions | Mixed |
| Light | Daylight |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Controlling Facilities | artcc : zob.artcc tower : geu.tower |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | Regional Jet CL65, Undifferentiated or Other Model |
| Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
| Navigation In Use | other |
| Flight Phase | cruise : enroute altitude change |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Aircraft 2 | |
| Controlling Facilities | artcc : zob.artcc |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | Commercial Fixed Wing |
| Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Person 1 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : first officer |
| Qualification | pilot : multi engine pilot : instrument pilot : commercial pilot : cfi |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 230 flight time total : 2350 flight time type : 950 |
| ASRS Report | 540966 |
| Person 2 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | altitude deviation : crossing restriction not met altitude deviation : undershoot non adherence : clearance non adherence : published procedure non adherence : required legal separation other anomaly other anomaly other |
| Independent Detector | aircraft equipment : tcas other controllera other flight crewa other flight crewb |
| Resolutory Action | none taken : insufficient time |
| Consequence | faa : reviewed incident with flight crew |
| Miss Distance | horizontal : 0 vertical : 1600 |
| Supplementary | |
| Problem Areas | Aircraft Airspace Structure ATC Human Performance Flight Crew Human Performance |
| Primary Problem | Aircraft |
| Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation |
Narrative:
We were in the process of climbing to FL330 assigned. At approximately FL315 the controller asked us to be at FL330 in 1 min (level in 1 min). Both the captain and I believed we could do it because we had plenty of extra airspeed. The CL65 aircraft that we fly is limited to 250 KIAS or mach 0.70 minimum airspeed during a climb above 10000 ft. We, upon receiving the climb rate instruction, immediately began a climb of 1500 FPM to comply with the assigned rate. After 15-20 seconds our airspeed began to fall significantly, rapidly approaching the minimum 250 KTS/0.70 mach minimum climb speed limitation. At that time center controller was busy talking to another flight(south). At the first available break in the controller's radio xmissions, I told center, before the expiration of 1 min, that we were unable to make the assigned climb rate for the remainder of our climb. We were vigilantly monitoring our TCASII and looking outside for any potential aircraft. We asked the controller if we needed to turn and he said it was too late for that. We reported our altitude at, I believe, FL326 and an aircraft 2000 ft below us sbound reported an altitude approximately 2000 ft below us. There was no RA or TA on TCASII. In the future I will be very cautious about agreeing to high altitude climb rate restrs when asked by ATC, as climb performance can drop off sharply in this aircraft.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: POTENTIAL CONFLICT AND LTSS WHEN A CL65 FLC UNDERESTIMATES THE PERFORMANCE CAPABILITY OF THEIR ACFT IN CLB AND CONFLICT WITH XING TFC ON FREQ WITH ZOB, OH.
Narrative: WE WERE IN THE PROCESS OF CLBING TO FL330 ASSIGNED. AT APPROX FL315 THE CTLR ASKED US TO BE AT FL330 IN 1 MIN (LEVEL IN 1 MIN). BOTH THE CAPT AND I BELIEVED WE COULD DO IT BECAUSE WE HAD PLENTY OF EXTRA AIRSPD. THE CL65 ACFT THAT WE FLY IS LIMITED TO 250 KIAS OR MACH 0.70 MINIMUM AIRSPD DURING A CLB ABOVE 10000 FT. WE, UPON RECEIVING THE CLB RATE INSTRUCTION, IMMEDIATELY BEGAN A CLB OF 1500 FPM TO COMPLY WITH THE ASSIGNED RATE. AFTER 15-20 SECONDS OUR AIRSPD BEGAN TO FALL SIGNIFICANTLY, RAPIDLY APCHING THE MINIMUM 250 KTS/0.70 MACH MINIMUM CLB SPD LIMITATION. AT THAT TIME CTR CTLR WAS BUSY TALKING TO ANOTHER FLT(S). AT THE FIRST AVAILABLE BREAK IN THE CTLR'S RADIO XMISSIONS, I TOLD CTR, BEFORE THE EXPIRATION OF 1 MIN, THAT WE WERE UNABLE TO MAKE THE ASSIGNED CLB RATE FOR THE REMAINDER OF OUR CLB. WE WERE VIGILANTLY MONITORING OUR TCASII AND LOOKING OUTSIDE FOR ANY POTENTIAL ACFT. WE ASKED THE CTLR IF WE NEEDED TO TURN AND HE SAID IT WAS TOO LATE FOR THAT. WE RPTED OUR ALT AT, I BELIEVE, FL326 AND AN ACFT 2000 FT BELOW US SBOUND RPTED AN ALT APPROX 2000 FT BELOW US. THERE WAS NO RA OR TA ON TCASII. IN THE FUTURE I WILL BE VERY CAUTIOUS ABOUT AGREEING TO HIGH ALT CLB RATE RESTRS WHEN ASKED BY ATC, AS CLB PERFORMANCE CAN DROP OFF SHARPLY IN THIS ACFT.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.