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MD88 flight crew take evasive TCASII action due to unrpted C172 in while on approach to sat. Approach controller reacts defensively.
| Attributes | |
| ACN | 542026 |
| Time | |
| Date | 200203 |
| Day | Sun |
| Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
| Place | |
| Locale Reference | airport : sat.airport |
| State Reference | TX |
| Altitude | msl single value : 5000 |
| Environment | |
| Flight Conditions | VMC |
| Light | Daylight |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Controlling Facilities | tracon : sat.tracon |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | MD-88 |
| Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
| Navigation In Use | other |
| Flight Phase | descent : approach |
| Route In Use | approach : visual arrival : on vectors |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Aircraft 2 | |
| Controlling Facilities | tracon : sat.tracon |
| Make Model Name | Skyhawk 172/Cutlass 172 |
| Operating Under FAR Part | Part 91 |
| Flight Phase | climbout other |
| Person 1 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : first officer |
| Qualification | pilot : cfi pilot : atp pilot : instrument pilot : flight engineer pilot : multi engine |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 200 flight time total : 8000 flight time type : 4000 |
| ASRS Report | 542026 |
| Person 2 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | conflict : airborne critical non adherence : published procedure |
| Independent Detector | aircraft equipment : tcas other flight crewa |
| Resolutory Action | flight crew : took evasive action flight crew : overrode automation |
| Consequence | faa : reviewed incident with flight crew |
| Miss Distance | horizontal : 0 vertical : 500 |
| Supplementary | |
| Problem Areas | Flight Crew Human Performance ATC Human Performance Airport Airspace Structure |
| Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
Narrative:
I was first officer and PF. We were fairly close to airport on a vector for a visual approach. We were relatively high and in a descent at about 1500 FPM. We got no TA. We suddenly got a climb RA with the green arc at about 1500 ft climb. I disconnected autoplt and autothrottles and started an aggressive pitch to the green arc. I never saw the C172, but the captain did at about the same time we got a 'clear of conflict' message. When we pointed this out to the ATC controller, he got very defensive and told us something to the effect that it was 'pop-up traffic' and he couldn't do anything about it. He then said that the cessna had us in sight. My problem with this guy's statements: if he knew that the C172 had us in sight, he must have been in contact with him, and we have no way of knowing that the cessna had us in sight as we did not ever hear any radio calls to the effect on our frequency. It's pretty scary to get an 'RA' with no 'TA' first, and worse to have a guy in ATC worried about saving his rear end than doing his job of keeping airplanes apart.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: MD88 FLC TAKE EVASIVE TCASII ACTION DUE TO UNRPTED C172 IN WHILE ON APCH TO SAT. APCH CTLR REACTS DEFENSIVELY.
Narrative: I WAS FO AND PF. WE WERE FAIRLY CLOSE TO ARPT ON A VECTOR FOR A VISUAL APCH. WE WERE RELATIVELY HIGH AND IN A DSCNT AT ABOUT 1500 FPM. WE GOT NO TA. WE SUDDENLY GOT A CLB RA WITH THE GREEN ARC AT ABOUT 1500 FT CLB. I DISCONNECTED AUTOPLT AND AUTOTHROTTLES AND STARTED AN AGGRESSIVE PITCH TO THE GREEN ARC. I NEVER SAW THE C172, BUT THE CAPT DID AT ABOUT THE SAME TIME WE GOT A 'CLR OF CONFLICT' MESSAGE. WHEN WE POINTED THIS OUT TO THE ATC CTLR, HE GOT VERY DEFENSIVE AND TOLD US SOMETHING TO THE EFFECT THAT IT WAS 'POP-UP TFC' AND HE COULDN'T DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT. HE THEN SAID THAT THE CESSNA HAD US IN SIGHT. MY PROB WITH THIS GUY'S STATEMENTS: IF HE KNEW THAT THE C172 HAD US IN SIGHT, HE MUST HAVE BEEN IN CONTACT WITH HIM, AND WE HAVE NO WAY OF KNOWING THAT THE CESSNA HAD US IN SIGHT AS WE DID NOT EVER HEAR ANY RADIO CALLS TO THE EFFECT ON OUR FREQ. IT'S PRETTY SCARY TO GET AN 'RA' WITH NO 'TA' FIRST, AND WORSE TO HAVE A GUY IN ATC WORRIED ABOUT SAVING HIS REAR END THAN DOING HIS JOB OF KEEPING AIRPLANES APART.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.