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2 same company E120 air carrier aircraft depart lax simultaneously on parallel runways and initially on the same route.
| Attributes | |
| ACN | 543823 |
| Time | |
| Date | 200204 |
| Day | Sat |
| Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
| Place | |
| Locale Reference | airport : lax.airport |
| State Reference | CA |
| Altitude | msl bound lower : 0 msl bound upper : 3000 |
| Environment | |
| Flight Conditions | VMC |
| Light | Daylight |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Controlling Facilities | tower : lax.tower tower : lal.tower |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | Brasilia EMB-120 All Series |
| Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
| Flight Phase | climbout : initial climbout : takeoff ground : takeoff roll |
| Route In Use | departure : on vectors |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Aircraft 2 | |
| Controlling Facilities | tower : lax.tower |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | Brasilia EMB-120 All Series |
| Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
| Flight Phase | climbout : initial climbout : takeoff ground : takeoff roll |
| Route In Use | departure : on vectors |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Person 1 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
| Qualification | pilot : atp pilot : cfi |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 250 flight time total : 9500 flight time type : 6000 |
| ASRS Report | 543823 |
| Person 2 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : first officer |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | conflict : airborne less severe non adherence : published procedure other anomaly other |
| Independent Detector | other flight crewa other flight crewb |
| Resolutory Action | none taken : anomaly accepted |
| Miss Distance | horizontal : 1200 vertical : 0 |
| Supplementary | |
| Problem Areas | Flight Crew Human Performance ATC Human Performance |
| Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
Narrative:
We were cleared for takeoff on runway 24R, company on runway 24L then cleared for takeoff 10 seconds later. We were instructed to turn right at shoreline to 270 degrees, so was company aircraft. We maintained visual contact at all times during takeoff and initial departure, but I was not comfortable with the separation from company -- about 1000-1500 ft apart -- it was almost like formation flying. I don't know what minimum separation is required in this situation, but this is the closest I've ever flown to another aircraft continuously. In the future, I will not accept those 'formation' departures and request a vector away from aircraft traffic. Callback conversation with reporter revealed the following information: reporter corrected his statement that they turned left at the shoreline to 270 degrees. They turned right to 270 degrees at the shoreline. He said the local controller cleared his flight first for takeoff but the other company also acknowledged the clearance causing them to depart at about the same time with the other company slightly in the lead. The reporter told the local controller that he had the other company in sight but does not recall being instructed to maintain visual separation. He said they were both on the same route for a short time and then turned away from each other.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: 2 SAME COMPANY E120 ACR ACFT DEPART LAX SIMULTANEOUSLY ON PARALLEL RWYS AND INITIALLY ON THE SAME RTE.
Narrative: WE WERE CLRED FOR TKOF ON RWY 24R, COMPANY ON RWY 24L THEN CLRED FOR TKOF 10 SECONDS LATER. WE WERE INSTRUCTED TO TURN R AT SHORELINE TO 270 DEGS, SO WAS COMPANY ACFT. WE MAINTAINED VISUAL CONTACT AT ALL TIMES DURING TKOF AND INITIAL DEP, BUT I WAS NOT COMFORTABLE WITH THE SEPARATION FROM COMPANY -- ABOUT 1000-1500 FT APART -- IT WAS ALMOST LIKE FORMATION FLYING. I DON'T KNOW WHAT MINIMUM SEPARATION IS REQUIRED IN THIS SIT, BUT THIS IS THE CLOSEST I'VE EVER FLOWN TO ANOTHER ACFT CONTINUOUSLY. IN THE FUTURE, I WILL NOT ACCEPT THOSE 'FORMATION' DEPS AND REQUEST A VECTOR AWAY FROM ACFT TFC. CALLBACK CONVERSATION WITH RPTR REVEALED THE FOLLOWING INFO: RPTR CORRECTED HIS STATEMENT THAT THEY TURNED L AT THE SHORELINE TO 270 DEGS. THEY TURNED R TO 270 DEGS AT THE SHORELINE. HE SAID THE LCL CTLR CLRED HIS FLT FIRST FOR TKOF BUT THE OTHER COMPANY ALSO ACKNOWLEDGED THE CLRNC CAUSING THEM TO DEPART AT ABOUT THE SAME TIME WITH THE OTHER COMPANY SLIGHTLY IN THE LEAD. THE RPTR TOLD THE LCL CTLR THAT HE HAD THE OTHER COMPANY IN SIGHT BUT DOES NOT RECALL BEING INSTRUCTED TO MAINTAIN VISUAL SEPARATION. HE SAID THEY WERE BOTH ON THE SAME RTE FOR A SHORT TIME AND THEN TURNED AWAY FROM EACH OTHER.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.