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Traffic delay incurred for approaching B737-300 flight crew to runway 28L by clouds off the end of runway 28R where a B757 PIC had accepted the visual. B757 was assigned #1 and the B737 given a 10 min delaying vector away from sfo, ca.
| Attributes | |
| ACN | 545300 |
| Time | |
| Date | 200204 |
| Day | Wed |
| Local Time Of Day | 0001 To 0600 |
| Place | |
| Locale Reference | intersection : menlo |
| State Reference | CA |
| Environment | |
| Flight Conditions | VMC |
| Light | Night |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Controlling Facilities | tracon : o90.tracon |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | B737-300 |
| Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
| Navigation In Use | other |
| Flight Phase | descent : approach |
| Route In Use | approach : visual |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Aircraft 2 | |
| Controlling Facilities | tracon : o90.tracon |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | B757 Undifferentiated or Other Model |
| Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
| Navigation In Use | other |
| Flight Phase | descent : approach |
| Route In Use | approach : visual |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Person 1 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
| Qualification | pilot : atp |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 225 flight time total : 14000 flight time type : 3336 |
| ASRS Report | 545300 |
| Person 2 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : first officer |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | inflight encounter : vfr in imc inflight encounter other non adherence : clearance non adherence : far non adherence : published procedure other anomaly other |
| Independent Detector | other flight crewa |
| Resolutory Action | controller : separated traffic none taken : unable |
| Consequence | faa : reviewed incident with flight crew other |
| Supplementary | |
| Problem Areas | ATC Human Performance Airspace Structure Environmental Factor Airport Weather Flight Crew Human Performance |
| Primary Problem | Weather |
Narrative:
With scattered clouds at 2000 ft we had both the bridge and airport in sight and were cleared for tip toe visual to runway 28L. As we were turning on a 310 degree heading to intercept runway 28L, bay approach asked if we had a B757 in sight and were told they were pairing us up with them. We saw them but they were popping in and out of the clouds and it was obvious we couldn't maintain visual with them. We were in the clear but bay pulled us off the approach, immediately cleared the B757 for a visual to runway 28R (they were in and out of the clouds!) and proceeded to delay vector us for the next 10 mins as if to punish us. We were cleared for the approach, then told after the fact about the B757. We even told bay they were in and out of the clouds but to no avail. I called the supervisor who told me that it was easier to pull us off the approach than the B757. It wasn't up to the B757 to maintain visual with us he said since they wanted us alongside or slightly behind the B757. The B757 (it was a company aircraft) claimed he had the airport but he was disappearing into clouds. He said since we said we couldn't maintain visual with the B757 they can't have us do a visual even though we had been cleared first, and the B757 was lying about being clear of the clouds. We had a clear shot of the airport all the way in. The controller was doing some punishment because he didn't attempt to get us in for quite some time.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: TFC DELAY INCURRED FOR APCHING B737-300 FLC TO RWY 28L BY CLOUDS OFF THE END OF RWY 28R WHERE A B757 PIC HAD ACCEPTED THE VISUAL. B757 WAS ASSIGNED #1 AND THE B737 GIVEN A 10 MIN DELAYING VECTOR AWAY FROM SFO, CA.
Narrative: WITH SCATTERED CLOUDS AT 2000 FT WE HAD BOTH THE BRIDGE AND ARPT IN SIGHT AND WERE CLRED FOR TIP TOE VISUAL TO RWY 28L. AS WE WERE TURNING ON A 310 DEG HDG TO INTERCEPT RWY 28L, BAY APCH ASKED IF WE HAD A B757 IN SIGHT AND WERE TOLD THEY WERE PAIRING US UP WITH THEM. WE SAW THEM BUT THEY WERE POPPING IN AND OUT OF THE CLOUDS AND IT WAS OBVIOUS WE COULDN'T MAINTAIN VISUAL WITH THEM. WE WERE IN THE CLR BUT BAY PULLED US OFF THE APCH, IMMEDIATELY CLRED THE B757 FOR A VISUAL TO RWY 28R (THEY WERE IN AND OUT OF THE CLOUDS!) AND PROCEEDED TO DELAY VECTOR US FOR THE NEXT 10 MINS AS IF TO PUNISH US. WE WERE CLRED FOR THE APCH, THEN TOLD AFTER THE FACT ABOUT THE B757. WE EVEN TOLD BAY THEY WERE IN AND OUT OF THE CLOUDS BUT TO NO AVAIL. I CALLED THE SUPVR WHO TOLD ME THAT IT WAS EASIER TO PULL US OFF THE APCH THAN THE B757. IT WASN'T UP TO THE B757 TO MAINTAIN VISUAL WITH US HE SAID SINCE THEY WANTED US ALONGSIDE OR SLIGHTLY BEHIND THE B757. THE B757 (IT WAS A COMPANY ACFT) CLAIMED HE HAD THE ARPT BUT HE WAS DISAPPEARING INTO CLOUDS. HE SAID SINCE WE SAID WE COULDN'T MAINTAIN VISUAL WITH THE B757 THEY CAN'T HAVE US DO A VISUAL EVEN THOUGH WE HAD BEEN CLRED FIRST, AND THE B757 WAS LYING ABOUT BEING CLR OF THE CLOUDS. WE HAD A CLR SHOT OF THE ARPT ALL THE WAY IN. THE CTLR WAS DOING SOME PUNISHMENT BECAUSE HE DIDN'T ATTEMPT TO GET US IN FOR QUITE SOME TIME.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.