37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 546365 |
Time | |
Date | 200204 |
Day | Sat |
Local Time Of Day | 1801 To 2400 |
Place | |
State Reference | FO |
Altitude | msl single value : 31000 |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | artcc : mmzt.artcc artcc : mmex.artcc tower : ont.tower |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | B767 Undifferentiated or Other Model |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Flight Phase | cruise : level |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Aircraft 2 | |
Controlling Facilities | artcc : mmzt.artcc |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Commercial Fixed Wing |
Flight Phase | cruise : level |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
ASRS Report | 546365 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Events | |
Anomaly | other spatial deviation |
Independent Detector | atc equipment other atc equipment : radar other controllera |
Resolutory Action | controller : issued new clearance controller : issued alert none taken : detected after the fact other |
Consequence | other |
Supplementary | |
Problem Areas | Flight Crew Human Performance Company ATC Human Performance |
Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | Inter Facility Coordination Failure |
Narrative:
At approximately XA55 at FL350 we were cleared direct to agu by mexico center. At approximately XB20 mexico center cleared us direct zcl direct hmo for traffic. I read the clearance back, mexico center repeated it and the copilot confirmed it. Near dgo at FL310 at approximately XB50, mazatlan center asked if we were deviating for WX. I said we were cleared direct to hmo and they said we were cleared UJ5 to hmo and proceeded to give us some turns for traffic. UJ5 was not our clearance as we were cleared direct hmo by mexico center. I can only conclude that this particular controller at mexico center has a different idea about what direct means than I do. Answer (by air carrier flight safety ofc): thank you for participating in the safety program. Your report was considered timely and will be entered in the database. Central and south america destinations use the term 'cleared direct' to mean cleared as filed. The controller was actually correct in what he was telling you. Your incident is closed with this response. If you have any additional questions or concerns, please do not hesitate to contact us. Captain's reply: this is in reply to the answer I received from the flight safety office in regards to my previous report. I disagree with the flight safety office answer because this particular day was not part of our filed flight plan or any previous clearance. Also, cleared direct is used all the time in mexican and central american airspace meaning to go direct to the fix. If your answer to my report is used to train pilots or for awareness it will be misleading and incorrect. When there is a revised route, the route is given and read back. My analysis is that the boundary between mexico center and mazatlan center is right after zcl when northbound. I think there was confusion between the 2 ctrs.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: B767 CAPT DISAGREED WITH A REPLY TO A FLT SAFETY RPT SUBMITTED TO HIS COMPANY'S FLT SAFETY PROGRAM.
Narrative: AT APPROX XA55 AT FL350 WE WERE CLRED DIRECT TO AGU BY MEXICO CTR. AT APPROX XB20 MEXICO CTR CLRED US DIRECT ZCL DIRECT HMO FOR TFC. I READ THE CLRNC BACK, MEXICO CTR REPEATED IT AND THE COPLT CONFIRMED IT. NEAR DGO AT FL310 AT APPROX XB50, MAZATLAN CTR ASKED IF WE WERE DEVIATING FOR WX. I SAID WE WERE CLRED DIRECT TO HMO AND THEY SAID WE WERE CLRED UJ5 TO HMO AND PROCEEDED TO GIVE US SOME TURNS FOR TFC. UJ5 WAS NOT OUR CLRNC AS WE WERE CLRED DIRECT HMO BY MEXICO CTR. I CAN ONLY CONCLUDE THAT THIS PARTICULAR CTLR AT MEXICO CTR HAS A DIFFERENT IDEA ABOUT WHAT DIRECT MEANS THAN I DO. ANSWER (BY ACR FLT SAFETY OFC): THANK YOU FOR PARTICIPATING IN THE SAFETY PROGRAM. YOUR RPT WAS CONSIDERED TIMELY AND WILL BE ENTERED IN THE DATABASE. CENTRAL AND SOUTH AMERICA DESTS USE THE TERM 'CLRED DIRECT' TO MEAN CLRED AS FILED. THE CTLR WAS ACTUALLY CORRECT IN WHAT HE WAS TELLING YOU. YOUR INCIDENT IS CLOSED WITH THIS RESPONSE. IF YOU HAVE ANY ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS OR CONCERNS, PLEASE DO NOT HESITATE TO CONTACT US. CAPT'S REPLY: THIS IS IN REPLY TO THE ANSWER I RECEIVED FROM THE FLT SAFETY OFFICE IN REGARDS TO MY PREVIOUS RPT. I DISAGREE WITH THE FLT SAFETY OFFICE ANSWER BECAUSE THIS PARTICULAR DAY WAS NOT PART OF OUR FILED FLT PLAN OR ANY PREVIOUS CLRNC. ALSO, CLRED DIRECT IS USED ALL THE TIME IN MEXICAN AND CENTRAL AMERICAN AIRSPACE MEANING TO GO DIRECT TO THE FIX. IF YOUR ANSWER TO MY RPT IS USED TO TRAIN PLTS OR FOR AWARENESS IT WILL BE MISLEADING AND INCORRECT. WHEN THERE IS A REVISED RTE, THE RTE IS GIVEN AND READ BACK. MY ANALYSIS IS THAT THE BOUNDARY BTWN MEXICO CTR AND MAZATLAN CTR IS RIGHT AFTER ZCL WHEN NBOUND. I THINK THERE WAS CONFUSION BTWN THE 2 CTRS.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.