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Attributes | |
ACN | 559685 |
Time | |
Date | 200209 |
Day | Sun |
Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : cvg.airport |
State Reference | OH |
Altitude | agl single value : 400 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : cvg.tracon tower : cvg.tower |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Regional Jet CL65, Undifferentiated or Other Model |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Flight Phase | descent : approach |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp pilot : cfi |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 230 flight time total : 5215 flight time type : 2870 |
ASRS Report | 559685 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Events | |
Anomaly | other anomaly other |
Independent Detector | other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | none taken : anomaly accepted |
Supplementary | |
Problem Areas | Navigational Facility Flight Crew Human Performance Environmental Factor Airport |
Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
Narrative:
Approaching cvg from the southwest, ATC had vectored us onto a high left dogleg to final for the runway 36L visual approach. According to the NOTAMS on our dispatch that portion of runway 36L south of taxiway K was closed leaving 6400 ft available for takeoff and landing. As we turned final, I attempted to fly what I believed to be a 3 degree glide path to the relocated threshold. However, I spotted a PAPI down the runway on the left side near the relocated threshold and it indicated that I was below the glide path. I reduced our rate of descent and asked my first officer if she knew anything about a new PAPI installation. She said that according to the ATIS there was a new PAPI, but it was not in service. (I thought it was rather peculiar to have the PAPI on, but call it OTS. But this was not without precedent. Yrs ago flight instructing at day, the runway 24L VASI was notamed OTS but was still on. And in nassau (mynn) the PAPI's burn bright but have been labeled 'on test only' for yrs.) so, we leveled off and the one thing I wanted to be sure of was crossing the relocated threshold at or above 50 ft AGL. The airplane called out '50' and the relocated threshold slid under the nose. The landing was uneventful and ATC made no complaints. The whole PAPI-questioning process lasted only about 20 seconds. I usually listen in when the first officer gets the ATIS, but this time I didn't. And the first officer apparently misunderstood what was said because when I called about the PAPI via ATIS later that day, the ATIS said the PAPI was in service on runway 36L. I was unable to learn whether the glide angle is a standard 3 degrees or steeper. But when I followed the PAPI the next morning, the on-glide path angle looked very steep. If this was an optical illusion caused by the lengthy threshold relocation, then it was a very pwrful illusion, indeed. Had I heard '50' any sooner, we would have gone around.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: THE PIC OF A CL65 QUESTIONS THE ILLUSION HE FELT WHEN USING THE NEW, TEMPORARY PAPI INSTALLED FOR THE DISPLACED THRESHOLD ON RWY 36L AT CVG.
Narrative: APCHING CVG FROM THE SW, ATC HAD VECTORED US ONTO A HIGH L DOGLEG TO FINAL FOR THE RWY 36L VISUAL APCH. ACCORDING TO THE NOTAMS ON OUR DISPATCH THAT PORTION OF RWY 36L S OF TXWY K WAS CLOSED LEAVING 6400 FT AVAILABLE FOR TKOF AND LNDG. AS WE TURNED FINAL, I ATTEMPTED TO FLY WHAT I BELIEVED TO BE A 3 DEG GLIDE PATH TO THE RELOCATED THRESHOLD. HOWEVER, I SPOTTED A PAPI DOWN THE RWY ON THE L SIDE NEAR THE RELOCATED THRESHOLD AND IT INDICATED THAT I WAS BELOW THE GLIDE PATH. I REDUCED OUR RATE OF DSCNT AND ASKED MY FO IF SHE KNEW ANYTHING ABOUT A NEW PAPI INSTALLATION. SHE SAID THAT ACCORDING TO THE ATIS THERE WAS A NEW PAPI, BUT IT WAS NOT IN SVC. (I THOUGHT IT WAS RATHER PECULIAR TO HAVE THE PAPI ON, BUT CALL IT OTS. BUT THIS WAS NOT WITHOUT PRECEDENT. YRS AGO FLT INSTRUCTING AT DAY, THE RWY 24L VASI WAS NOTAMED OTS BUT WAS STILL ON. AND IN NASSAU (MYNN) THE PAPI'S BURN BRIGHT BUT HAVE BEEN LABELED 'ON TEST ONLY' FOR YRS.) SO, WE LEVELED OFF AND THE ONE THING I WANTED TO BE SURE OF WAS XING THE RELOCATED THRESHOLD AT OR ABOVE 50 FT AGL. THE AIRPLANE CALLED OUT '50' AND THE RELOCATED THRESHOLD SLID UNDER THE NOSE. THE LNDG WAS UNEVENTFUL AND ATC MADE NO COMPLAINTS. THE WHOLE PAPI-QUESTIONING PROCESS LASTED ONLY ABOUT 20 SECONDS. I USUALLY LISTEN IN WHEN THE FO GETS THE ATIS, BUT THIS TIME I DIDN'T. AND THE FO APPARENTLY MISUNDERSTOOD WHAT WAS SAID BECAUSE WHEN I CALLED ABOUT THE PAPI VIA ATIS LATER THAT DAY, THE ATIS SAID THE PAPI WAS IN SVC ON RWY 36L. I WAS UNABLE TO LEARN WHETHER THE GLIDE ANGLE IS A STANDARD 3 DEGS OR STEEPER. BUT WHEN I FOLLOWED THE PAPI THE NEXT MORNING, THE ON-GLIDE PATH ANGLE LOOKED VERY STEEP. IF THIS WAS AN OPTICAL ILLUSION CAUSED BY THE LENGTHY THRESHOLD RELOCATION, THEN IT WAS A VERY PWRFUL ILLUSION, INDEED. HAD I HEARD '50' ANY SOONER, WE WOULD HAVE GONE AROUND.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.